Author Topic: Banning Tobacco On-Campus (Read 47578 times)

JakeJZG · « **Reply #40 on:** October 03, 2007, 04:12:14 PM »

Quote from: pmp6nl on October 02, 2007, 11:01:40 PM

Quote from: JakeJZG on October 02, 2007, 09:20:52 AM

While it may be within their power to limit smoking on public property, I don't see where the government derives the right to dictate such terms to private businesses.

Well I guess they relate it to how smoking has a negative effect on health which can lead higher costs (health etc.) for the nation as a whole?

...Are you saying the university is a private business (I was just following the general conversation about the bans at campuses)

I was referring to businesses, not a state run institution that has absolutely no right (VIA the Bill of Rights) to also ban firearms to any length.

Also, I believe in letting people do what they want. This is like creating Free Speech Zones.

Sal Atticum · « **Reply #41 on:** October 03, 2007, 04:43:56 PM »

We should put up signs that say "Free Speech Zone" around campus.

JakeJZG · « **Reply #42 on:** October 04, 2007, 03:11:00 PM »

Quote from: mburtonk on October 03, 2007, 04:43:56 PM

We should put up signs that say "Free Speech Zone" around campus.

Hahahaha - but Bush isn't here to make us not have free speech! It would be inappropriate!

Sal Atticum · « **Reply #43 on:** October 04, 2007, 03:19:17 PM »

I think it might make people think.

It's sort of along the lines of that "Suggestion Box" that someone made a book out of a few years ago. These guys wandered around NYC with a big cardboard box that said "Suggestions" and gave people cards to write suggestions down on. People ended up writing things like "Free french fries on Tuesday" and "Give peace a chance" and "Don't walk up to strange people on the subway" etc.

It makes you think. It wouldn't be a "free speech zone" sensu stricto, but it could remind people that they can do what they want and not necessarily what they are told to do.

pmp6nl · « **Reply #44 on:** October 05, 2007, 12:33:59 AM »

Quote from: JakeJZG on October 03, 2007, 04:12:14 PM

I was referring to businesses, not a state run institution that has absolutely no right (VIA the Bill of Rights) to also ban firearms to any length.

Also, I believe in letting people do what they want. This is like creating Free Speech Zones.

You sure are a constitutionalist (sp?)...

While I think its a great document (and important part of our history), it was written several hundred years ago. Dont you think that there have been so many changes through the years that would, if the constitution was written today, essentially change much of the core principles in the constitution etc.?

Sal Atticum · « **Reply #45 on:** October 05, 2007, 08:27:46 AM »

JakeJZG · « **Reply #46 on:** October 08, 2007, 03:34:53 AM »

Quote from: pmp6nl on October 05, 2007, 12:33:59 AM

Quote from: JakeJZG on October 03, 2007, 04:12:14 PM

I was referring to businesses, not a state run institution that has absolutely no right (VIA the Bill of Rights) to also ban firearms to any length.

Also, I believe in letting people do what they want. This is like creating Free Speech Zones.

I don't see where either I have shown myself to be anything but, and I don't see one area of the Constitution that needs to be updated or changed.

You sure are a constitutionalist (sp?)...

While I think its a great document (and important part of our history), it was written several hundred years ago. Dont you think that there have been so many changes through the years that would, if the constitution was written today, essentially change much of the core principles in the constitution etc.?

pmp6nl · « **Reply #47 on:** October 09, 2007, 11:54:20 PM »

Well I know. I was just saying in general you seem to be more focused in that direction... Im just giving you a hard time

JakeJZG · « **Reply #48 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:03:08 AM »

Quote from: pmp6nl on October 09, 2007, 11:54:20 PM

Well I know. I was just saying in general you seem to be more focused in that direction... Im just giving you a hard time

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Sal Atticum · « **Reply #49 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:10:54 AM »

Jake seems to be angry about guns.

It's too bad he doesn't start anything about it here.

Admiral Ackbar · « **Reply #50 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:14:25 AM »

I haven't noticed anyone smoking less. There sure are more drunk people though.

JakeJZG · « **Reply #51 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:12:34 PM »

Quote from: Admiral Ackbar on October 10, 2007, 08:14:25 AM

I haven't noticed anyone smoking less. There sure are more drunk people though.

I hope they allow nicotine gum and such.

pmp6nl · « **Reply #52 on:** October 14, 2007, 12:42:59 PM »

Rights of one person vs rights of another

ajekt · « **Reply #53 on:** October 14, 2007, 04:05:51 PM »

Blah Blah Blah. Its my right to smoke. BS

JakeJZG · « **Reply #54 on:** October 15, 2007, 02:19:57 AM »

Perhaps we should question the University's decision to make health-related choices for us, rather than allow us to be adults? Sure, this one isn't one that many people would disagree with, but let's say they take our constitutional right to own and have a firearm. How about Free Speech?

Wait, they already did that.

What good is college again, save that nice piece of paper? What is it really teaching us?

ajekt · « **Reply #55 on:** October 15, 2007, 11:22:05 AM »

Quote from: JakeJZG on October 15, 2007, 02:19:57 AM

Perhaps we should question the University's decision to make health-related choices for us, rather than allow us to be adults? Sure, this one isn't one that many people would disagree with, but let's say they take our constitutional right to own and have a firearm. How about Free Speech?

Wait, they already did that.

What good is college again, save that nice piece of paper? What is it really teaching us?

Dear God, see my posts in the other thread.

Second hand smoke kills innocent people. Why should that be allowed to be continued?

Rules and laws need to be put in place for the betterment of society. There is a reason that certain things are illegal. When I start to see students as a whole be responsible then I will reconsider, but when you have students making so many poor choices sometimes the university needs to guide the people in the right direction. They are teaching us how to be better people of the world.

JakeJZG · « **Reply #56 on:** October 15, 2007, 11:36:55 AM »

Quote from: ajekt on October 15, 2007, 11:22:05 AM

Dear God, see my posts in the other thread.

Second hand smoke kills innocent people. Why should that be allowed to be continued?

Rules and laws need to be put in place for the betterment of society. There is a reason that certain things are illegal. When I start to see students as a whole be responsible then I will reconsider, but when you have students making so many poor choices sometimes the university needs to guide the people in the right direction. They are teaching us how to be better people of the world.

Rules and Laws are in place for order for a stable society - when any level of government begins to encroach on our personal freedoms questioning is in order. Every. Time.

People kill innocent people, should they be banned? Terrible logic.

ajekt · « **Reply #57 on:** October 15, 2007, 12:01:37 PM »

The personal freedoms of who? I think it is my personal freedom to not have to inhale all of the smoke. They are encroaching on my personal rights.

What is your definition of a stable society?

The logic was just fine. Sometimes people need to be told what to do, there are reasons there are laws and polices.

JakeJZG · « **Reply #58 on:** October 15, 2007, 12:45:53 PM »

A stable society is one in which people regard the government as a necessary evil, and respect each other's space. The government and people must live in an environment of accountability to human rights and good spirit.

This is merely legislated morality and it will neither improve public order or cease to any good measure the smoking on campus.

Sal Atticum · « **Reply #59 on:** October 15, 2007, 03:26:15 PM »

Quote from: JakeJZG on October 15, 2007, 12:45:53 PM

A stable society is one in which people regard the government as a necessary evil, and respect each other's space. The government and people must live in an environment of accountability to human rights and good spirit.

Is it possible you're a libertarian as well as a constitutionalist?

Quote

This is merely legislated morality and it will neither improve public order or cease to any good measure the smoking on campus.

Morality should never be legislated, I agree.

Quote from: ajekt

Sometimes people need to be told what to do, there are reasons there are laws and polices.

Before we start getting into telling people what to do, why don't we ask them first? Or are you afraid to approach a smoker and ask them to step a little farther downwind? I can tell you why the 20 foot rule didn't work: not because it wasn't enforced, but because everyone who disliked the people smoking right there decided to whinge about it amongst themselves, rather than talking to the people smoking themselves? I think that smoking is declining rapidly in this country--why do you think that is? It's not because of all these anti-smoking ads, it's because people started to care about their health, and they started to take issue with people around them lighting up--at work, at school, at home. It's PEOPLE talking to PEOPLE, letting them know that the majority is against them, and that they aren't cool anymore.