Author Topic: Iran  (Read 10081 times)

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Offline Sal Atticum

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Iran
« on: September 29, 2007, 10:37:40 am »
So, why do we have a problem with Iran?  Because they are thinking about maybe someday having Nuclear weapons?

I really don't see a problem with this.  Discuss.
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: Iran
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 02:38:36 am »
We think only certain people should have them?
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Iran
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2007, 07:46:57 am »
Why do we get to decide?
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Offline JakeJZG

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Re: Iran
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2007, 09:14:09 am »
Why do we get to decide?

We have as much right to stop them as they do to have them.

Plus, it's Iran
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: Iran
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2007, 10:43:40 pm »
Why do we get to decide?

Well we think we are the boss.
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Offline JakeJZG

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Re: Iran
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2007, 11:55:00 pm »
Why do we get to decide?

Well we think we are the boss.

He who has power is.  We have power, we decide how to protect our interests.
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Offline zman

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Re: Iran
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2007, 12:34:25 pm »
Why do we get to decide?

Well we think we are the boss.

He who has power is.  We have power, we decide how to protect our interests.

That doesnt mean we have to be a bully.

Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Iran
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2007, 03:19:58 pm »
I don't think it's our place to be involved.  I'm a fan of the "do unto others" philosophy.

I like funny things, too.  I think this cartoon puts it all into perspective:


(from http://www.truthdig.com/cartoon/item/20070911_iran_cracks_the_code/)


[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 03:20:31 pm by mburtonk »
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Offline JakeJZG

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Re: Iran
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2007, 04:02:16 pm »
Bully or not, we cannot allow Iran to acquire or make nuclear weapons.

Iran signer of Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
   -not ratified two protocols to the IAEA  Program 92 + 2 - prevents states from dev their own nukes

Bushehr Site
- Pu light water reactor
- Light Water Reactors mandate that Iran builds enrichment facilities (how convenient)
*If enrichment goes to 15-30% = breader reactor levels - - Normal 2.5% - 3.5%
- can produce 1/4 ton of Pu per year (~30 nuclear warheads)

Arak Site
- Heavy Water Reactor
- For "medical purposes" (read: these are almost classified as Breeder Reactors)
- Does not require mechanical enrichment facilities
- Larger than neccesary for a "research" or "educational" reactor
- 40 MW
- Facilities at Arak also involved in the R&D of unguided missiles, including facilities dedicated to modification of Shahab/Scud missiles
   -Both Shahab-3 and Ghadr-110 can carry scud class warheads
           -Ghadar-110 is a varriant of the Shahab-3 with a faster set-up time, better maneuverability, and same range (2K km)
- 9 - 12.5 kg of Pu / yr depending on capacity factor
- 4 to 5 kg of Pu in a warhead means roughly 2 to 3 warheads per year

Nuclear Weapons for the worlds largest supporter of anti-western islamofacist terrorism who also wants to "remove" Israel?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 04:10:36 pm by JakeJZG »
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Iran
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2007, 04:45:32 pm »
Eh.  Let Israel make nukes too.
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Offline JakeJZG

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Re: Iran
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2007, 11:10:41 pm »
Eh.  Let Israel make nukes too.

Oh, they already have them - and we gave them some back in the 70's.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Iran
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2007, 01:09:15 pm »
Bully or not, we cannot allow Iran to acquire or make nuclear weapons.

Iran signer of Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
   -not ratified two protocols to the IAEA  Program 92 + 2 - prevents states from dev their own nukes
They signed a treaty saying they won't make nukes?  What do you mean by "not ratified"?

Quote
Bushehr Site
- Pu light water reactor
- Light Water Reactors mandate that Iran builds enrichment facilities (how convenient)
*If enrichment goes to 15-30% = breader reactor levels - - Normal 2.5% - 3.5%
- can produce 1/4 ton of Pu per year (~30 nuclear warheads)

Arak Site
- Heavy Water Reactor
- For "medical purposes" (read: these are almost classified as Breeder Reactors)
- Does not require mechanical enrichment facilities
- Larger than neccesary for a "research" or "educational" reactor
- 40 MW
- Facilities at Arak also involved in the R&D of unguided missiles, including facilities dedicated to modification of Shahab/Scud missiles
   -Both Shahab-3 and Ghadr-110 can carry scud class warheads
           -Ghadar-110 is a varriant of the Shahab-3 with a faster set-up time, better maneuverability, and same range (2K km)
- 9 - 12.5 kg of Pu / yr depending on capacity factor
- 4 to 5 kg of Pu in a warhead means roughly 2 to 3 warheads per year

All I see you doing here is listing places where they could make nukes, which doesn't seem to be a logical argument against them being made.
Quote
Nuclear Weapons for the worlds largest supporter of anti-western islamofacist terrorism who also wants to "remove" Israel?

Okay, so say they bomb the crap out of Israel.  Do you think they will survive more than a week?  More than three days?  I know that not everyone likes Israel, but would the international community stand for that?

Say they bomb the crap out of us (you know, in ten years, when maybe they have built a viable weapon).  It just doesn't make sense to me why someone would go on such a suicide mission--if you want to call them all islamofascists, then perhaps they aren't right in the head to begin with, but how can you (in essence) commit suicide and expect any one of your people, anywhere in the world to survive?  I'm not in favor of such a reaction towards potentially innocent people, but I'm not sure it wouldn't happen.


I'm back to the point where either everyone has them or no one does.  Anywhere in between does not foster trust, undertsanding, or international commerce (and I mean other things besides oil when I say that).
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Offline JakeJZG

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Re: Iran
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2007, 02:54:44 pm »
Quote
They signed a treaty saying they won't make nukes?  What do you mean by "not ratified"?

They said they wouldn't proliferate them, but they refrained from signing the portion that was in regard to them not making nukes.

Quote
All I see you doing here is listing places where they could make nukes, which doesn't seem to be a logical argument against them being made.
These reactors are specifically picked and designed to give them the experience and beginning of a nuclear weapon program.  They rejected many designs from Europe and the US which would have prevented them from making nuclear warheads while still providing power.

Quote
Okay, so say they bomb the crap out of Israel.  Do you think they will survive more than a week?  More than three days?  I know that not everyone likes Israel, but would the international community stand for that?

If you were to detonate a nuclear weapon of any significant power near Tel Aviv, Israel would cease to exist.

Quote
Say they bomb the crap out of us (you know, in ten years, when maybe they have built a viable weapon).  It just doesn't make sense to me why someone would go on such a suicide mission--if you want to call them all islamofascists, then perhaps they aren't right in the head to begin with, but how can you (in essence) commit suicide and expect any one of your people, anywhere in the world to survive?  I'm not in favor of such a reaction towards potentially innocent people, but I'm not sure it wouldn't happen.

I do not trust or expect rational western thought with those who want:

-The complete destruction of the west, replaced by a new Caliphate
-Nucear Weapons
-To continue being the largest funder and facilitator of terrorism in the world.

Quote
I'm back to the point where either everyone has them or no one does.  Anywhere in between does not foster trust, understanding, or international commerce (and I mean other things besides oil when I say that).

I don't frankly care what other countries think - we need to defend ourselves and that inherently includes preventing our enemies from arming against us.  We cannot allow other countries to dictate our national security to any extent.


The strategies which we employ is one thing - allowing a Extremist Muslim nation who has provided the means for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of deaths worldwide that wants to destroy the west is not an option.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 02:57:10 pm by JakeJZG »
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Iran
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2007, 02:58:22 pm »
So do you want to invade Iran?  Before or after we finish up whatever it is we're doing in Iraq?
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Offline JakeJZG

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Re: Iran
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2007, 03:07:18 pm »
So do you want to invade Iran?  Before or after we finish up whatever it is we're doing in Iraq?

I do not want to invade Iran.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Iran
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2007, 03:20:19 pm »
What do you want to do about this problem?

(I know, not a valid argument, I'm just curious.  I really don't have a solution.)
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Offline JakeJZG

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Re: Iran
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2007, 04:34:03 pm »
We really can't go beyond undermining their government without war or doing surgical strikes until there is some much larger and more deadly strike on the US. 
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Iran
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2007, 04:44:32 pm »
Oh politics.

I'd rather stick to the ones within our country; all the international politics are much too bloody for my liking.
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: Iran
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2007, 12:26:50 am »
Oil?
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Offline JakeJZG

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Re: Iran
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 07:49:48 pm »
Oil?

Oil has led to the power of the countries in the region, yes.

?
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