Gamma Phi Beta "Cowboys and Indians" Hullabaloo

[Sal Atticum]

To think that "Hullabaloo" doesn't come up as a misspelled word.

There is a lot of commentary going on about this right now, but I wanted to highlight some of it in particular, just because it reflects student views on certain things, and those views are important to Campus Dakota.  Yeah, I know we can't prove that they are students, but let's take everyone at their word today.

(Of course, Martin Rottler is a student, and his column can be found here.  To see if other UND students have commented on the party, try our list of blogs.)

From comments on Grand Forks Life, Open Thread 71:

Logan said...

    So who thinks that sorority party is going to have a negative impact on the fight for keeping the UND nickname?
1:30 AM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    God, I hope that sorority story pushes it off the cliff. There is no way UND is keeping that nickname, so it just needs to be done. I like the nickname, I was a Sioux letterwinner, and I received my degree from UND, so I would prefer to see the nickname stay just the way it is, but this 'controversy' is a total distraction.

    Give the whiners what they want, and let the rest of us move forward.
7:51 AM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Anon, 7:51, please clarify who you mean by the whiners: the many people who are calling for the end of the nickname or the American Indian students who are filing a discrimination complaint against the sorority. Even people who still support the nickname should be aware of racist incidents in and around Grand Forks and not pass them off as "whining."

    9:04 AM, March 23, 2008

Kelly Clow said...

    Honest to God, you call that costume party a "racist incident"?

    Are you serious?!

    How about everyone (including certain sanctimonious Native Americans) dressing up in shamrocks and getting plowed out of their minds every St. Pats? How about the ever-present alcohol imagery associated with the Irish in popular culture? Ever look at a St. Patrick's day card?

    I'm Irish, and if I sued every non-Irish person who dressed up in outfits I considered disrespectful to my culture, I'd either be filthy rich or dismissed as a total crackpot.

    Come on people, this is just some kids blowing off some steam in a PRIVATE party.

    Let it go.

    12:19 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    I agree with Kelly. I'm Irish. If I had a green beer for every comment that was made to me on March 17th about "drunken Irish", I could buy a round at the Shanty. Come on folks, let's focus on some serious issues here. As a Sioux name supporter, I feel it is time to change the name. Not because it is offensive, but to give certain faculty at UND time to teach.

    12:49 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    I'm sure that offensive comments are still made against Irish folks, especially on St. Patrick's Day, but the fact is that it's been many years (probably before Kennedy was elected president) that the Irish were a people commonly discriminated against in the U.S. It's a lot easier to brush off insults when no one really expects you to leave "their" land. Many American Indian students at UND have heard local White people yell things like "go home Prairie N****r" at them. Why should they trust that costumes and poses misappropriating at their heritage are all in good fun? That "war paint" was slapped on and sexualized, not in line with any respectful portrayal of a native warrior.

    As the Herald reported, Clemson University (South Carolina) recently had to take action after a party in which White students were padding their backsides to poke fun of Blacks. Sure, some "booty jokes" may be funny, but when one group uses stereotypes to try to keep a minority group in their place, the only way the minority group will feel accepted and trust the majority is they're already treated as equals in most other respects. That hasn't happened yet for American Indians in North Dakota.

    1:24 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    I am of Irish descent...I just want to that to be clear. The problem with trying to make a comparison between the American Indians' situation and Irish decendents in America is, that in modern society, Irish Americans (or those of us of Irish decent) relish and revel in our history and heritage. We, ourselves, propogate the stereotype of the Irish shamrock lovn' stout guzzln' Mic. We, for lack of a better word, are proud of it. As am I.

    And we love when others join us in these celebrations of our hertitage. We love our heritage and how we've perservered against discrimination. However, it was easier for us to blend in over time, as we looked like the typical "white American."

    The best thing, and most distinct thing about the Irish in America, is our undying love for the old homeland and its culture coupled with our embrace of America. The Irish love their heritage, true enough, but there also are no bigger patriots in America than Irish Americans.

    I just don't think we can so readily and conveniently lump the American Indian experience in with the Irish experience in America. It was different, to be ultra-simplistic.

    The Irish in America have not had it easy, but, they eventually were more readily accepted than the American Indian, because the Irish wanted to assimilate (yet retain bits of their culture). They weren't forced to as the Indians were.

    American Indians I tend to think still hold that against the majority culture. Thus, they jealously hold on to their individualism, at least when it comes to culture, and they don't want those who "don't get it" to join in. Look at it as their own exclusive club, where the dues were paid with the blood of their ancestors.

    1:50 PM, March 23, 2008

Kelly Clow said...

    Is it OK for people to refer to Native Americans as "Reds"?

    I ask, because your previous comment repeatedly referred to Caucasians as "Whites" and referred to African Americans as "Black".

    Political correctness goes BOTH ways.

    "It's a lot easier to brush off insults when no one really expects you to leave 'their' land."

    Really? Some Native Americans have repeatedly laid claim to North America as "their land", and consider everyone else here to be thieves.

    "it's been many years (probably before Kennedy was elected president) that the Irish were a people commonly discriminated against in the U.S."

    I beg to differ. Go down the cereal aisle sometime and pick up a box of Lucky Charms. Go to Spencers after Valentine's Day and go look at the culturally sensitive items on display there.

    Native Americans complain about their imagery being displayed around the Ralph? Try having the shamrock (a symbol of the Holy Trinity) slapped onto a green, crotchless, see-through thong.

    Now, I'm not trying to get into a pissing match over who's got it worse. I'm just trying to point out that EVERYBODY has some sort of culturally insensitive skeleton in their closet, and lawsuits won't fix anything.

    1:53 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    No, it's not OK to refer to Native Americans as Reds, even though some may refer to their skin tone by using the word "red." Black, on the other hand, is often used interchangeably with African American. Listen to Obama talk. It's not all vague references to hope -- last week he really tackled racial issues and most often used "Black" as the adjective and "African Americans" as the noun to refer to that racial group in the U.S. As for White, it has become the preferred term for many journalists and scholars writing about European Americans and certain other Caucasian persons. Caucasian also includes the peoples on the sub-continent of India and can also include Arabs, so it doesn't have the same cultural meaning as White. If you really want to learn more about accepted uses of racial and ethnic terms, pick up a copy of the APA Publicaion Manual, since APA style is used across the social and behavioral sciences.

    2:12 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    To the remark that it was just some kids blowing off steam, I disagree. I attended the party and there was no offense intended. It was simply a bunch of students not thinking about the impact they could make. But the Cowboys and Indians Party (it wasn't just a cowboys party, as the girl in the article claimed, but neither was it entirely to bash Indians) was all in fun, not necessarily with purposeful disregard to the Native Americans, but just a bunch of silly college students having fun by taking on the theme of old westerns. Thought simply wasn't given to the Native Americans, so, yes: oops, our mistake. But, lay off. It was a bunch of silly college kids. The thought of Native Americans' opinion never crossed our poor, ignorant minds, but no offense was meant either.


    2:35 PM, March 23, 2008

Kelly Clow said...

    So, the American Psychological Association, to you, is the final word on accepted terminology?

    The APA is one of the most notorious Liberal think tanks in existence. They are the same organization that published a study on how political Conservatism is a social disorder.

    2:40 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    A few questions about the party:
    1. Who came up with the idea of a Cowboys and Indians theme? Did they think, for even a moment, that it might not be, well, good?
    2. Where was it held? "Off-campus"? In a house? If so, whose house?
    3. Lots of drinks in those pictures. All held by 21 year olds?
    4. What are the students' parents thinking right now? Are they proud?
    5. What will the sorority itself think? This is an international sorority. Check out their website and see if this party at all fits in with their mission. I imagine THEY will have something to say about this party. Remember, this is just a chapter.

    This is a UND-related issue. The sorority is affiliated with UND, and it's not a bunch of kids blowing off steam. Once they're holding a beer in their hands, they're claiming they're 21, and "kidhood" has ended.

    You can't be 21, going to a university, being trained to be a leader (sorority website), and expect to fall back on "Gee, I'm just a kid" when you're caught doing something stupid.

    3:25 PM, March 23, 2008

Kelly Clow said...

    The idea that political correctness is a watermark of adulthood is as offensive as it is ignorant.

    The question was not whether or not the students were drinking, or having a party or even dressing in silly costumes for that party. The question was whether or not they were intentionally excluding or causing duress to a particular race of people.

    I can't imagine that was the purpose.

    If they are guilty of anything, it's bad taste.

    4:00 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Why do the Irish drink so much?

    4:18 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Because they're still trying to drown their melancholies from the Great Potato Famine. "Oh Danny, Boyyyy! The pipes, the pipes, they are ..."

    Why do Indians sit outside the liquor stores in Devil Lake and say stuff to me like (in that sing songy native acccent) "Hey, friend, can you get me some Budweiser!?"

    I hope I didn't offend anyone ...

    "I vas yust following orders! Sich, heil!"

    4:28 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    To anon @ 3:25 pm, thanks for posting that list of questions about the party and the comments that follow. You really cut to the chase and I hope yours are among the questions addressed in the discrimination complaint (note to all readers: the issue is currently framed as an internal, UND affair, not a lawsuit).

    9:19 PM, March 23, 2008

logan said...

    "The thought of Native Americans' opinion never crossed our poor, ignorant minds, but no offense was meant either." (2:35 PM, March 23, 2008)

    This is exactly why we haven't earned the right to keep the Sioux nickname. Poor, ignorant minds. Regardless of what UND staff and faculty claim about our intended respect of Native culture, the majority of students on campus just don't know enough to make educated decisions about what being culturally sensitive to Native Americans entails.

    To kelly clow 12:19 PM, March 23, 2008: That "PRIVATE" party became public when the sorority's current president posted pictures on the internet.

    9:25 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Anonymous @ 3:35pm,

    As I stated earlier, the idea did not occur that it would offend anyone. "Cowboys and Indians" is a popular theme for college parties all over the nation. It's based on old western movies and the stereotypes and generalizations they set up that continue until today. If you find a problem with that, then I hope you also find a problem with little children dressing up as cowboys and Indians for Halloween. Or little boys playing Cowboys and Indians?

    A good number of the party goers were under 21, and the sorority probably thinks the Native American students are being overdramatic. Indulge yourself in the positive mission statements on sorority websites. They do community service, they hold study tables, girls are often involved around campus (many with leadership positions), they award their girls for academic achievements... but sororities, for the most, part are there to meet a social need. The girls are going to drink and party and have fun, and it's ridiculous to think otherwise.

    That is, of course, my opinion, and as a member of a sorority, I probably have my biases, but I've tried to stay as fair as I can.

    Yes, it was absolutly a mistake on the party hosts's behalf that no thought was given to the Native American students. But neither was any offense intended. They weren't purposefully excluded from the party, either. As far as I experienced that evening, no one brought up the Sioux logo and, aside from dressing up in war paint and feathers ("Hollywood made us do it"), nothing occured that the Native American students should have found offense in.

    I hope I've been fair in my assessment of the party, but I'll also appreciate it if you think I'm wrong and tell me how so.

    Cheers!

    9:29 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Logan, you're right... The thing is, a lot of students just don't really care, about the Sioux logo nor about being culturally sensitive. That's what happened with the party theme. It was all in good fun, and we just didn't care. That's a mistake on our part, and as a part of a university that is facing these issues, we especially shouldn't be easily excused for not caring. But, that's just how it was.

    9:34 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Anonymous 9:29, I gather I'm older than you are. I'm a parent, I've finished my degrees, and I've learned a lot as I've grown up.

    One thing I've learned is that you can't claim that lack of intent means much of anything when you're an adult. My kids used to wail, "But it was ON ACCIDENT!" when they did something wrong, as if not having the intent to do something wrong was somehow mitigating the offense. (And, yes, I know that "on accident" isn't grammatical, but they were 3 or 4 then.)

    Here's the thing. You live in a big big world. Bigger than GF. Bigger than ND. Bigger than the US. You will meet people who are much different from you, in looks and in beliefs. The way we all get along--or try to get along--is to have respect for them. To think ahead just a little bit. To guard your mouth and your actions. To remember that you share the center of the universe with millions of other people.

    It was just a party, but it hurt people. Was it worth it? No. Should you--should SOMEBODY--have thought ahead? Yes.

    See?

    Ah. You have just grown up a little bit.

    9:43 PM, March 23, 2008

naturalplastics said...

    In the cities we had to dress up as pilgrims and indians in elementary school (I guess it was like 20 years ago). Big whoop!

    If this group of people wants everyone to ignore their existance and history, why don't we just forget them. Why is it just our school's sports teams, why aren't they offended by history books?

    While we're at it, no more free tuition for indian students, we'll repossess the thousands of square miles of reservations, remove laws set to protect archaeological sites, and 'sacred places' and let their culture die in obscurity.

    9:53 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Anon at 9:43 made me think of something (good post btw)...where are the apologies? So you didn't think ahead when you hosted the party. AND you didn't think when you posted the pictures for all to see. Go sit in time out and when you've thought it out...Apologize. And recognize that it was hurtful and harmful to the community...not only the Native American community but to UND and Grand Forks.

    9:57 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    "While we're at it, no more free tuition for indian students, we'll repossess the thousands of square miles of reservations, remove laws set to protect archaeological sites, and 'sacred places' and let their culture die in obscurity."


    Naturalmoron: It's ignorant comments like yours above that are helping the PC nuts to win this war and hastening the demise of our beloved nickname. It was wrong on so many levels.

    10:23 PM, March 23, 2008

Anonymous said...

    I agree, discontinue the tution waiver for the native americans, but the rest of that post is pretty much never going to happen.

    10:28 PM, March 23, 2008

Kelly Clow said...

    Logan,

    I put emphasis on "PRIVATE" because the party was not a sanctioned UND event.

    As for referring to the discrimination complaint as a lawsuit...my bad. I have absolutely no idea as to why I kept referring to it as a lawsuit. The Herald even refers to it specifically as a complaint. Thanks for pointing that out. Like an idiot, I would have kept calling it a lawsuit without knowing it. Sometimes a word just sticks in my mind no matter how wrong it is. (I once called my car keys my "forks" three times before my girlfriend asked me what the hell I was talking about!)

    10:33 PM, March 23, 2008

Matthew said...

    As for the Cowboys and Indians party: Look, the whole logo thing has been done to death. Some people are not going to change (like the "take back the tuition waivers: anon), and that's the way the world works. We can't legislate what people do on their own time unless it has real consequences, but there's a point at which it just isn't worth the effort to do some things that are going to cause such a ruckus for now reason.

    The party may or may not have been socially "appropriate," but it was probably not the best idea for a theme party in this town. In other towns it may have worked just fine and nobody would have a problem, but Grand Forks (and North Dakota in general) have a significant native population.

    Again, let me point out that I'm against the government/city/state/UND telling people what they can or cannot do with respect to similar parties and such, but it's just a matter of personal courtesy. Personally, I don't have such a problem with natives that I want to publicly mock them, so I would have pushed for a different kind of party. It's more of a Golden Rule thing: be nice to me and I'll be nice to you. This doesn't mean we can't have fun.

    Comparing natives to the Irish or the French or the Jews or any other of a thousand different ethnic/cultural groups is not going to fix anything--every situation is different, and just like I think every political candidate ought to be treated as an individual rather than a party member, I think we should judge people on their individual merits, and not whichever stereotype you choose at the moment.

    The world is grey, Jack.




    On a different note, why does UND only need the support of the Sioux tribes within the state? Are Sioux from other states and Canada not offended for some reason?

    8:58 AM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    As far as identifying the whiners--that would be all the whiners. Professors, Native Americans, nickname supporters, liberals, conservatives, racists, and Johnny-Get-Alongs. Everybody just STFU. Change the ****ing name and be done with it.

    9:02 AM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Just for the record, The Mrs. and I support UND financially since leaving G.F. When, and if, UND changes the name of it's mascot, we will not continue to support the institution with our cash. Not because of any retribution or punishment. Because our connection is to the The UND Fighting Sioux.

    We will feel no connection to the UND Wimperdoodles.

    9:30 AM, March 24, 2008

Matthew said...

    Good on ya. If you'd rather give your money to a sports team than to an educational institution, I as a student would rather not have your money.

    9:47 AM, March 24, 2008

OUWxGuesser said...

    Are donors that shallow that they will only support the school with the original nickname? Pathetic. When someone asks me what school I attended (or am currently attending), I don't tell them the logo/nickname. I tell them the actual name. The only place nickname/logo matters is on the field. It plays ABSOLUTELY NO ROLE in the classroom. Isn't that supposed to be the main reason you attend school?

    10:18 AM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    You're a dumbass. The reality is, there are several institutions, non-profits, etc, who deserve a donation. When the rubber hits the road at the time to strike the check, The Frollicking Wimperdoodles go to the end of the list. Like I said earlier, no punishment or retribution, just the fact that the people and institution we feel a connection to, is gone. Fairly, simple concept.

    Maybe even ouxguesser can grasp it.

    11:04 AM, March 24, 2008

Lynsey said...

    Well said, Matthew and OUwxguesser.

    I just find it incredibly hard to believe that no one in this sorority had the thought cross her mind that this might come across as offensive.

    I also thought that girls in a sorority couldn't drink while wearing anything identifying themselves as part of the sorority, whether it is the Greek letters, the written name, or the crest/logo displayed on their clothing. Can anyone clear this up for me?

    11:13 AM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    you're threatening to take your donation away because of a sports team name...I'm sorry but to me as a non-athletic, -ACADEMIC- STUDENT that to me IS the very definition of punishment to the UNIVERSITY and its STUDENTS and FACULTY.

    11:15 AM, March 24, 2008

OUWxGuesser said...

    "Maybe even ouxguesser can grasp it."

    My bad. I didn't realize that some people could graduate from college and only feel a connection to the nickname of the school they attended.

    11:17 AM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    When you grow up and have your own money, you'll understand.

    11:18 AM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    thanks for belittling poor students who don't understand the concept of having soooo much money.

    Maybe your money would be better well spent trying to buy the tribes out.

    11:22 AM, March 24, 2008

Matthew said...

    lynsey, I think the letter rule depends on the sorority or fraternity. I think that they can at a private party of their own, but not out at the bars where "outsiders" can see them. Not being into the Greek thing though, I don't know anything for sure :-)

    anon 11:15, you hit the nail on the head there.

    11:24 AM, March 24, 2008

dale said...

    As for the University, my wife and I discontinued our donations last year, though for reasons that had nothing to do with the name of the team. Though I'll miss "The Fighting Sioux" in some nostalgic way, if we donate to the University of North Dakota, it will be irrespective of what the name is (so long as it's not "The Force" :-)

    12:53 PM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    I think you should do whatever you want with your own money.

    1:52 PM, March 24, 2008

Szymanski's Designated Driver said...

    Anonymous donor: You've been donating to UND this whole time because of your "connection" to the Fighting Sioux name? So because of an NCAA imposed sanction that UND has tried to fight (though they stood no chance of winning in the first place) you're going to pull your money out? There's nothing UND can do, they'll have to change their name. I don't see your logic. You obviously never cared that much about the school in the first place if something that's out of UND's hands causes you to stop being a donor.

    4:04 PM, March 24, 2008

UND Senior said...

    The photos that were saved to the photobucket account have been deemed in violation of their TOS, and the sorority president has removed her facebook account (can't imagine why!)...does anyone have the photos?? I'd like to see and judge them for myself...

    4:16 PM, March 24, 2008

Matthew said...

    For some reason, the slideshow on the photobucket account still seems to work. Enjoy.

    5:59 PM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Anon @ 9:43pm, I didn't say otherwise. I'm just in no position to make any apologies on everyone's behalf.


    Well said, Matt, ouwxguesser, and anon @ 11:15. Lynsey, we're not supposed to drink with our letters on. We weren't wearing our letters. This isn't only for when we go out to bars, but for everywhere. Not even private parties because then pictures can be taken of us, posted, etc.


    I wonder if the threat of withdrawal by alumni donors is a reason the University is hesitant to change the nickname. I mean, I imagine there is a threat, but how big is it? Does anyone know if alumni donors were ever surveyed? Hah! I've never planned on donating to the University, but maybe I will if they CHANGE the nickname.


    Speaking of pro-sports and anti-academia, I'd just like the thank UND for spending thousands on the nickname lawsuit, while closing off the Medical School because students would stay late to... guess what?... study!

    6:06 PM, March 24, 2008

Anonymous said...

    Sorry, Lynsey. Confused for a second between letters and the Sioux logo. The event shirts did have Gamma Phi's name, and technically, the girls of Gamma Phi that were wearing the shirts should not have been drinking. A big reason the pictures were pulled is that the girls wearing their letters while drinking will get the chapter in trouble.

    However, Gamma Phi's specifics on that rule may be different from my sorority's, so it's possible that it's okay if the girls are 21+. As far as I know, though, the rule is absolutely no drinking for anyone (even 21+) while in letters.

    Anyone exclaiming "oh my god, underage drinking!" is a little late to the party, though.

    6:15 PM, March 24, 2008

thewanderingjew said...

    I'd have to concur with what Matthew and ouwxguesser have said prior...as a student who is about to graduate the idea of being attached to the nickname is ridiculous.

    Some people have been busy with Google...my blog post about the story has bumped my hits up well past 100 since this morning...pretty good for a blog that usually gets 10-15 hits a day :-P.

    6:20 PM, March 24, 2008

That's it as of 8:16 tonight, but I'm sure there'll be more in the morning when people wake up.

[Red]

1. Who came up with the idea of a Cowboys and Indians theme? Did they think, for even a moment, that it might not be, well, good?
    2. Where was it held? "Off-campus"? In a house? If so, whose house?
    3. Lots of drinks in those pictures. All held by 21 year olds?
    4. What are the students' parents thinking right now? Are they proud?
    5. What will the sorority itself think? This is an international sorority. Check out their website and see if this party at all fits in with their mission. I imagine THEY will have something to say about this party. Remember, this is just a chapter.

1.  Cowboys and Indians has been around since the beginning of time.  Ever since Indians stated scalping settlers heading west.  And I wouldn’t think it should matter whether someone finds it offensive or not.  I find the fact that there are no Caucasian student centers on campus for my support.  Never have I felt more racial discrimination for being white then here in North Dakota, the Sioux state, the land of the white.  Build me a center where I can go and vent about how these racist Indians will never let me live free because of something that happened between people that neither of us have met.

2.  Was it held off campus?  And if it was then its none of your damn business whose house it was.

3.  Wanna talk about underage drinking?  I sure hope that it was not an Indian posting that comment because in this situation when you point one finger there are definitely 3 pointing back.  And underage drinking is beside the point.  The complaint is about being offended by the style of dress.

4.  What are their parents thinking right now?  Probably that they would rather have their daughter drunk at college than pregnant at home.  They are probably proud that the next morning their student climbed out of bed a little hung over and headed to the library to study instead of riding around in a car drunk and unemployed on the reservation.  Those are not racist comments, since they are supported by the fact that statistically, Indians have drastically higher rates of unemployment and alcoholism.

5.  From the web site.

“The vision of Gamma Phi Beta is...
...to be recognized among peer associations as a premier women’s organization exhibited by:
•   developing campus and community volunteers and leaders,
•   providing innovative programming which addresses issues relevant to women and society,
•   strengthening our resources, and
•   managing the organization through volunteerism.
A complete Gamma Phi Beta woman is prepared to be a leader, believes in philanthropy and helping young girls, is committed to personal academic excellence and values her lifelong membership in Gamma Phi Beta.”


Nowhere does it say that a Gamma will not dress up in a costume and have a good time.

[Plantains]

Oh lord.

Lemme ask you guys this... and Im not stating rightness or wrongness. But I just want an idea of what you consider racist about our schools name and what you consider racist about a cowboy and indian party? Or not racist for that matter?

I'm on this post when it's not 2:22am tho. Is this posting in this 3/28 firdays issue? Or do I have it in my bag in one of my waiting to peruse issues?

[Sal Atticum]

Someone made a video of the slideshow that is still up on Flickr, with their own comments.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNw40H_kMwk[/youtube]

[SoonerNSioux]

OUWxGuesser = me on there so I've posted some on the issue. 

I actually fall middle of the road.  I don't see an issue with the nickname itself, however, the party was in poor taste in my opinion given our unique circumstances.  While it could of flown on any other campus, we already know there is a Native population on campus AND at least a small contingent of those have a hardcore agenda of getting rid of the nickname for various reasons.

Frankly, I think the party goers if anything are guilty of being stupid.  Why dressing up in unflattering attire of Natives seemed like a good idea at the time is beyond me when everyone knows we're under the microscope.  Why add fuel to the fire?   As a normal typical white guy, I can see how some of the pictures could be offensive as they depict a variety of Native American stereotypes.  The second act of stupidity was posting them publicly.   Someone needs to start a web counter of the number of college students that have been zinged by posting incriminating photos on facebook/myspace etc. Probably would look a lot like our national debt clock

Of course the real question is what's the solution to this issue? I don't have the answer for that one   How do you draw the line between what's wrong and right?  You can get someone to find almost anything  offensive.

[Sal Atticum]

Sooner, I totally agree with what you have to say.  I can't say much more than that.  I actually messaged Rottler and spouted off a little more about what I thought about it, but I doubt he's going to get back to me).  I want to sit down and write out what I think a solution would be, but it will take me a few days to get that much time (especially since I want to be done the first draft of my thesis by next week).

So, in conclusion, I agree, and I'm a bum.

[Admiral Ackbar]

North Dakota students can't get enough of that old-timey racist humor
by: Tom Elko
Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:49:55 AM

[Saddle and Sirloin] North Dakota State University is investigating the NDSU Saddle and Sirloin Club and sorority Alpha Gamma Delta after a racially charged performance at the Mr. NDSU Pageant. The performance featured a student in black face depicting presidential candidate Barack Obama receiving a lap dance while two students dressed as cowboys mimicked anal sex in the background. The Saddle and Sirloin Club, a club for students at the Fargo campus interested in animal agriculture, performed the lip-synching number in front of an audience of 500 people.

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Tom Elko :: North Dakota students can't get enough of that old-timey racist humor
The Forum newspaper described attendees' accounts:

 

  A pageant contestant from Saddle and Sirloin dressed as the woman from the popular Internet video "I Got a Crush on Obama" and performed for another student who was wearing dark makeup and an afro wig.

    In the background, two male students dressed as cowboys simulated anal sex while holding an Obama sign that one student ripped at the conclusion of the 30-second performance.

Obama is scheduled to travel to North Dakota to speak at the state Democratic Convention next week.

Meanwhile, at the University of North Dakota in Grand Forks, the Gamma Phi Beta sorority was put on "temporary social probation" for a party in November in which members and their guests donned red paint and mocked Indian clothing.

UND has frequently been criticized for its "Fighting Sioux" nickname and its American Indian logo. The school's administration has fought to retain the name and often cites support from the Indian community to soften accusations on insensitivity.

Recent events may imperil that support and make defending the school's "Fighting Sioux" logo more difficult.

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