Measures 1 and 2: how should I vote?

[Sal Atticum]

For those looking to find out more about the pros and cons of measures 1 and 2 on the ND ballot, here are some websites:

http://www.measure1nd.com/ - Pro-Measure 1
http://www.nomeasure1nd.com/ - Anti-Measure 1

Marketwatch - Anti-Measure 2
(I haven't found a Pro-Measure 2 site yet)

Anti-both Facebook group.

Discussion (and anti-both):

COLUMNIST LLOYD OMDAHL: Measures limit property tax relief
Grand Forks Herald
Published Monday, October 13, 2008
Measures 1 and 2 on North Dakota’s November ballot call for such significant and permanent reformation of the tax structure that passage could hogtie the Legislature and prevent meaningful property tax relief down the road.

Voters may be making a choice between lower income taxes or lower property taxes without being aware of the whole picture.

In North Dakota, the choice should be simple. Income taxes are low, and property taxes are high.

With the income tax, if you earn income, you are able to pay the tax; with property tax, you pay whether you have money or not.

Of the two, the property tax has become more inequitable with each decade. Initially, when property was more widely owned, the underlying justification of the property tax was that it was a benefits-received tax. That is hardly the case today.

While the benefits-received theory may apply to a county property tax for roads, it has no logic when it comes to financing education. Because the ownership of property is so disparate, property owners are paying disparate shares for a governmental function that benefits all of society. And as we become more and more of a service economy, property ownership is becoming even more uneven.

The property tax is most onerous in the larger North Dakota cities where assessments have kept up with the market. Residents in every major city in North Dakota are paying about 2 percent of market value in their yearly tax bills. That’s at least four times the amount these homeowners pay in income tax.

Measures 1 and 2 are based on the idea that our Legislature is full of spenders and won’t be responsible in handling the $1.2 billion budget surplus. The Legislature had extra money in the most recent session and, instead of spending it, socked much of it away in a rainy day fund and other fiscal coffee cans.

If Measures 1 and 2 are defeated, the Legislature would still have the authority to put surplus money in trust funds as proposed by Measure 1, and it could still cut the income taxes as proposed by Measure 2 if it felt that was preferable to cutting property taxes. You can bet that, given a clear choice, the people would favor cutting the property tax.

The underlying issue involved in Measures 1 and 2 is trust. Can we trust the Legislature to do the right thing? The frugal orientation of the Legislature will not be changed by surpluses. It wasn’t changed in the last session, and it won’t be changed in the 2009 session.

With the whole state fiscal picture before it, the Legislature is best able to balance tax cuts, trust fund savings and state needs. Both measures need to be defeated.

[pmp6nl]

I am voting against both.  I feel they will have too large of a negative impact on higher education in North Dakota.  Several student governments across the state have passed resolutions in opposition to the measures.  This past weekend the North Dakota Student Association passed a resolution in opposition to both measures.

For more information and some debate take a look at http://forum.nodaksa.org/index.php/topic,14.0.html and http://forum.nodaksa.org/index.php/topic,21.0.html

If anyone is looking for buttons or other promo material against the measures please post and we can get you some.

[Sal Atticum]

See, I don't know what to think.  Where does it specifically say that money will be taken away from education?  More importantly, how do we know that the surplus money will go toward education in the first place?

I see the Measure 1 thing as a way to increase the revenue in the long term, based on the interest gained (which goes back into the operation fund).  I don't see putting money way for the long run as a bad thing, but I suppose I can see where people are against putting so much money away, and making it so hard to get out again.

I guess my issue is that, if we're not putting money away for the long term, where it will grow and start to produce more (like an endowment for the state), where is the money going to go?  Seeing the way this country has been lately, and the way things are going at UND, it doesn't look like education is going to be top priority, no matter how much of the public thinks we should be on the top for education in the world.  Even if it does go toward education, I see it being whittled away frivolously for things like UND's transition to NCAA Division I sports--something that does NOTHING to improve education.

It's measures like this that get me a little ticked at the legislation--lets have some more choice, maybe?  The measures are stated in such a way as to get passed--so the people who don't agree because they hate the whole idea, and the people who don't agree because they disagree with the way the measure is written get lumped together in the same group, which means you don't get a good representation of the reason WHY people didn't vote "yes."

In my perfect world, we'd get options for "yes," "no," and "no, but only in the details" with a space to write in EXACTLY why you disagree.  This would lead to more informed decisions by the political leaders of the state.


In other news, it's exciting to see NDSA members posting on a message board.  Woot!

[pmp6nl]

From what I have been told higher education is voted on last, so it balances the budget.  With less budget money available since it gets put into these funds, in theory there will be less available for higher education.  It would require a super-majority, 3/4 vote, to take money from the fund... something not easy.  The problem is that many legislators in the state do not support higher education at a very high relative level because their constituents don't necessarily see the direct benefit, though there are many secondary benefits.

I am working on getting some better talking points and more information.

[pmp6nl]

There is also an anti measure 1 and 2 event at http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=85033470715

Another anti measures 1 and 2 group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25418152507&ref=mf

[Sal Atticum]

This article has a good point, that setting up a fund like Measure 1 by adding it to the constitution is sort of weird and, based on the record of the ND state government being cheap, we probably don't need to go that far.

There is also a point about Measure 2, that the real tax issue in ND is not income tax but property tax.

[Sal Atticum]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=89615&section=homepage

[Sal Atticum]

From the Facebook group:

Rallying the Troops
To members of ND Students Against Measure 1 & 2
 
Cameron Battagler
Today at 4:21pm
Reply
Hello Everyone,

Now is the time to get out the word against ND Measures 1 & 2. At this time we have put together some quick fliers to put on cars and anywhere else (don't litter though thats no good) You can download the flier here http://forum.nodaksa.org/index.php/topic,56.0.html

Put it on some neon paper and get it out and around your campus, town, and anywhere else you can think of!

Also there will be a radio debate with AFP's Dustin Gawrylow. The debate is going to be moderated by the Radically conservative right-wing blogger Rob Port tomorrow evening at 7:00. The debate will be broadcast on AM1100 WZFG out of Fargo (online feed available at AM1100.tv) from 7 - 8PM tomorrow Wed. the 29th. Make sure to check it out!

So remember everyone get out there and let's get these measures shot down to ensure our futures as students!