Author Topic: Chat!  (Read 38574 times)

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Offline Plantains

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2011, 03:27:41 PM »
Sorry... cx is not touring, and touring is not cx just to clarify because I think I may have confused you. CX is a form of racing, and touring is touring. Touring frames will have generally more slack geometry for more comfort, but be less "zippy" than a racing bike. FWIW, my Raleigh One Way is set up for cx because despite Raleigh selling it as a single speed touring bicycle, it is a cross bike. It has the same geometry as their cx racing frame (the carbon one AND the sscxwc steel one).

edit: THIS is the one way I have...



I was going to post a pic of how mine is set up, but Facebook is completely useless now and you can't link photos anymore. Rest assured... it's a racing bicycle though.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 03:32:35 PM by Plantains »
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Offline OUWxGuesser

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2011, 07:58:23 PM »
Thanks for the reading material!   I think the frame is the current reason why I feel the need for another bike.  Are there any resources (webpages) that offer a general comparison of  frame geometries for touring vs. cx vs. mtb, 29er mtb etc. ?   To be honest, all I really notice at this point is the height of the seat vs. handlebars.   With my 26" MTB,  the ride is more upright, presumably because this gives you better handling when navigating trails etc.  More of the weight seems shifted towards your rear and you are more likely to be riding with your ass off the seat. 

I assume with touring frames, you sit higher, leaning  over more so more weight is up towards the front.

 I've heard of dropbars for MTBs... are there frames with geometries geared towards xc mountain biking?




 






Offline Plantains

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2011, 09:29:03 PM »
Almost everything you just typed is "wrong".

An MTB is generally a more upright position than a road bike because of the variance in terrain. Any good MTBer will shift his weight a TON while riding. If you ride in "dirt drops" (thats what drop bars on an MTB are called btw, but they're slightly modified over regular road bars) you generally don't see front suspension on there, and thats because the stability of the bike would be really crappy under compression (stability in terms of a balance between control and traction).

Referring to saddle to bar drop, you'll generally find a racing bicycle (on or off road) with a more aggressive position versus something designed for touring or comfort. MOST mountain bikes will be setup for comfort until you get to about the $1000 marker.

The reason that your MTB is more upright than your touring bike is because it probably is more upright.

This is what a race geometry XC MTB looks like, and you'll notice that the position is nearly as aggressive as a racing geometry road bicycle.





This can be compared to bikes designed for more recreational use in the same genre's from the same company...



But that's sort of an apples to oranges comparison.

In terms of the differences in geometry between the types of frames... I'm not sure there's a good (or short) answer. Sheldon's site is where I'd start. Unfortunately... since he recently passed away, it's sort of cluttered. While the information is certainly there, it's cumbersome to navigate. But I urge you to find something on that site that isn't fascinating.

Other than that, the reason that the answer is long is because there are no standards for geometry, in the same way that there are no standards for the human body. Some road bikes have a short top tube and a long seat tube, and some for the same purpose have the opposite. The most direct answer that I'd be comfortable giving you is to refer to HTA or Head tube Angle. Generally, you'll find a more slack HTA for a more comfort oriented bicycle, but we're talking tenth's of degrees here. Maybe two whole degrees at the MOST, and even this is bad info because a savvy cyclist will look at HTA to help determine toe overlap, and turning circles. But this AGAIN (sorry) gets murky because of fork rake. Believe me when I say though, ALL of this is so far beyond what you should be MOST concerned with, that it's largely just me spouting off bike knowledge for your future reference.

In the end, let me be the first to tell you, you can find your DREAM bicycle on paper, build it with the greatest spec'd parts, and wheels and get it all assembled only to find out that you hate it. I would say that it definitely pays dividends to understand frame geo and the tech related to it, but don't stress over it.

My point with that was you should ride a bunch of different bicycles until you find something that you enjoy. Parts can be changed. Frame geo can't really (well... it can, but thats a whole nother can of worms)  :evil6:

Start by going to the shop in GFK and just ask them to ride a couple of different bicycles. Make sure you write down the year make and model of the bike (get yourself fitted by going to wrenchscience.com first BTW) and then remember which ones you liked the best and why. Goto the respective websites for that manufacturer and find that bike (again year, make, model) and see what the geo is. Compare the geo's with the one's you didn't like and use your brain (and ours) to help determine what you may or may not have liked and why. Then expand your search by looking for more frames, but with similar types of geometry.

Ok... I'll stop now... :P
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2011, 09:33:50 PM »
I just searched btw and found some seemingly interesting frame type comparisons. Though I'm not sure if you'll care to delve into the nerdiness that they'll offer.

1. http://djconnel.blogspot.com/2009/09/bike-geometry-comparison.html
2. http://gearinches.com/blog/misc/bike-geometry-comparator
3. This one isn't as good... but it has a video? http://www.coolbiking.com/blog/cycling/road-bike/bicycle-frame-geometry-101/
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Offline OUWxGuesser

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2011, 11:34:15 PM »
OK, so moral of the story, my Trek 4500 MTB is probably on the more comfortable end of things, so I need to toughen up and perhaps get some padded shorts.  That still leaves me wanting a bike with larger tires...  thanks for all of the links and info.  This is why I'm asking now so I can do plenty of research beforehand. 

As far as the dirt drops go, couldn't you use the drops for the more boring terrain, then use the top of the bar for technical areas (and still take advantage of suspension and an upright riding position)?  On my 4500 for example, I often enable the suspension lock out to prevent the suspension from traveling if I'm commuting, riding on the greenway, etc.  It's during rides like these I wish I had a lower hand position. 


Offline Plantains

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2011, 01:32:48 AM »
Many people do use and like dirt drops. The biggest problems you're going to run into is what sort of cockpit layout you want. If you decide to use brifters or pods. Some are only going to work with a flat bar, and some are only going to work with drops.

I cut my teeth racing MTB and I can tell you that I would never use drops, nor have I ever wanted to use drops. There's just too much moving around on the bike, and I wouldn't want to move my hands from the hoods to the tops to the drops ever because of the risk of losing control. But riding on road is different, and this is why you end up spending time looking into all of these ridiculous details.

As far as ur 4500. It is essentially a mass market bicycle. Meaning... yes, you can certainly off road it, and the frame is well built, but it is certainly getting sold to people that will never take it off road (think like an SUV) as opposed to a "real" (forgive the term) mountain bike that would be like an ACTUAL off road vehicle.

About your saddle. First you should CERTAINLY be riding in bicycle shorts. If they weren't worth their weight in gold, we wouldn't all be walking around in spandex. Simple as that.

But other such things as frame, tire choice, tire pressure, forks, seatpost, and saddle will ALL play a factor in your comfort, especially on your ischial tuberosities (sit bones). Again... I'll direct you to the late great Sheldon Brown for another (shorter) article on saddles and WHY almost every inexperienced cyclist complains about a lack of comfort even though they have a saddle with more cushioning than a memory foam mattress! http://sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

And to reiterate, I welcome your questions (or anyone else's for that matter) on such topics.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2011, 09:50:41 PM »
See, they do hold alleycats in other places than NYC and Grand Forks, and it's not just hipsters doing them: http://www.clifbar.com/blog/detail/clif_bars_and_new_belgium_brews_at_the_urban_assault_ride_in_tucson/
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2011, 10:23:57 PM »
Well now that it's "old" and "played out" other people can do them. :lol:
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Offline Riley

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2011, 10:33:17 PM »

Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2011, 08:01:08 AM »
lolz
JUST EXTRA POLISH. I DO SOME WORK WITH EXCELL SO I KEEP THE CAPS LOCK ON :-P

Offline Riley

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2011, 12:25:00 AM »

Offline sanders

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2011, 09:00:33 AM »
niceee!
Alone you are an athlete but on a bike you are a rocket

Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2011, 11:51:28 AM »
JUST EXTRA POLISH. I DO SOME WORK WITH EXCELL SO I KEEP THE CAPS LOCK ON :-P

Offline Plantains

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2011, 01:18:04 AM »
I agree with most of what that article says actually. That said... he walks a fine line by saying that people are in control of their vehicles when they speed. While he is "technically" correct, people literally have no idea about how to operate their cars properly, why its bad to text and drive, or any number of other things that should be complete common sense.

That said, people DEFINITELY will choose a speed on the traffic conditions and road conditions. No one is doing 20 on university, and I would regularly do 50 on whatever that road is past the alerus. Why? Because it's a 5 lane highway!

As I've stated numerous times, I wish that people would take driving more serious. Everyone always talks about how much they want the government out of their face. Well... maybe you should take some responsibility for your actions then? I certainly don't think people need to get any type of a pilots license for a car... but at least make it so that you need to learn something aside from what each pedal in an automatic does.
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Offline OUWxGuesser

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2011, 09:10:33 PM »
Cycling prank video I mentioned today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ur4U5UekTM



Offline Plantains

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2011, 12:50:47 AM »
Cycling prank video I mentioned today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ur4U5UekTM




I feel like someone posted this before but its such gold! GOLD!
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Offline redtailin

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2011, 04:53:21 PM »
really sorry I couldnt participate in the festivities this weekend.  Having like 2 weeks to graduation really put the crunch on things.  To try to make it up to you all, I found this for you...

3 gears of single speed....sit, stand, walk.

Offline redtailin

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2011, 04:55:08 PM »
how do i get a pain cave like this?
3 gears of single speed....sit, stand, walk.

Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2011, 07:17:35 PM »
That's my "I have all this stress about the race weekend to deal with but I don't care because I'm RACING, baby!" expression.
JUST EXTRA POLISH. I DO SOME WORK WITH EXCELL SO I KEEP THE CAPS LOCK ON :-P

Offline Plantains

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Re: Chat!
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2011, 08:57:45 PM »
What happened to all the leg/arm warmers?
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