Author Topic: What reform means to ND...  (Read 4603 times)

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Offline Sal Atticum

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Offline Meest

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 02:39:09 am »
Who makes a F(*&(*@#$KING WEBSITE WITH NO AUDIO LEVEL CONTROL!!! Honestly... piss poor design.

Sorry you said spout. I hate things like that. Why of course i want your background music blaring at a louder level that I would like automatically as soon as I load the page.

Discussion at work about this brought up the question of bringing health care costs down first before doing this... It will be interesting to see if that happens. I'm also interested in what this does to my health insurance I already have through my work, and what the costs are going to change to.

I've been paying for my own health insurance since I moved out of my parents house and stopped going to college anyway. I would never imagine not having any form of health insurance. I've seen to many bad things happen because of not having it. It is a good idea. I'm interested in seeing how it works in practice.... Maybe that will mean Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Dakota will actually cover my costs when I go to Aurora now instead of being dick wads.

Offline Plantains

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 11:07:02 am »
Its unfortunate that this bill passed the way that it did. I was really looking forward to true reform, but this is more a political push than anything imo. I wouldn't expect it to lower costs, I would expect it to raise them... and by quite a margin too. The cost to the end user will vary of course, some people will see costs drop and other skyrocket depending on how you use or have used the system.

Frankly though, I don't like talking about it too much because there are too many people who haven't a clue and just like to argue semantics... and I have better things to do. Plus... on this forum I feel like I'm walking into a bait and shoot.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 11:09:47 am »
Plus... on this forum I feel like I'm walking into a bait and shoot.

All other things aside, I'm not laying a trap for you here.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 12:11:11 pm »
Not u beek. Not u.

I feel that people hate on others just because of a political affiliation. People assume because of my affiliation that I am somehow against everything Obama says/does/etc.

Healthcare reform is a good thing. Socialized medicine is not. While we didn't get socialized medicine, I don't think we got healthcare reform either. The way I view it, is basically that this bill could've done great things (and yes I know everyone will NEVER be happy), but it won't ever do great things because it was totally half assed. The left wanted it one way, and the right wanted it another way, instead of compromising and coming up with a plan that benefits the most people in the best way, they simply took out their red flag items. So we get a bill that has a whole bunch of left stuff and right stuff in it. Its a hodgpodge of billy bullshit.

My biggest gripe with the whole thing is that there are dEFINITELY some political officials who were allowed to vote that clearly (some even admittedly) didn't read the bill. I don't care if you vote no, yes, present, have a better idea, or what... YOUR JOB IS TO READ THIS DRIVEL THAT YOU PUT TO THE FLOOR!

Our government (BOTH SIDES) are just completely disconnected with the people's views. I'm sick of the "we know best" attitude. The country needs jobs. These were supposed to be provided by the stimulus package... unemployment was supposed to stay below 8%. It didn't. The companies that took the bailout money were supposed to pay it back with interest... some can't. The healthcare bill was supposed to make healthcare affordable... it might? This isn't really Obama's fault (I mean... in a roundabout way I guess) but really, its everyones. Its the citizens entitlement attitude, and the governments we know best attitude.

On that note... I've had/have "socialized" medicine in the form of state run healthcare. NY's is slightly different than massachusettes in the sense that it isn't mandatory, but I pay more. LOTS more, and generally get less than if I had "free market insurance". I also pay considerably more because I earned an income (something like $3000/yr) than I would if I had no income, and the care is better. But that's NY for you... trying to keep citizens out of work. Unlimited good healthcare for "free" from the state, lifetime welfare (unlike the national limit of 3 years TOTAL for your LIFE!). So why would I get a job? Theres no incentive.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 03:42:36 pm »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100413/ap_on_he_me/us_med_dr_nurse

Doctor Shortage. Just ONE of the many lacking "big picture" items this bill did nothing about.
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 11:52:20 pm »
Guardrail, do you think the changes were better than nothing?

I dont have health insurance right now. I just had to get stitches the other day, I wonder how much it will cost?  I am for more affordable health insurance/health care, but I dont know the best way to do this.  I like some progress.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2010, 01:18:47 pm »
No, because simply put we didn't have "nothing". We had something. It may have cost money, or been inefficient for some, but the healthcare we had was already a product of some government official not thinking beyond 5 years down the road, or beyond his election. Obama was elected on change... in terms of changing government. It didn't happen, we still had things like the cornhusker kickback in this bill and some states getting their FULL MEDICARE bills paid while other states had to foot the bill on their own? How is this different? This is a healthcare bill that anyone could've passed with enough of their own party in power.

Obama thinks its better than nothing. Thats why he passed it. I'm sick of government saying they want to help everyone and half assing it. Read the bill, do your job. How many times did this amazingly important time critical bill get held up so these bastards could go on vacation? They get more holidays than you or I, they make more, and THEY GET BETTER HEALTHCARE!

Unfortunately, there's no easy solution. I hope that republicans repeal the bill (because truly, they're the only ones who would ever consider doing it) but this means they'll need to have a super majority. I don't want republicans to have a super majority, because I don't want a republican version of healthcare. I want an AMERICAN version of healthcare.

If you get past the whole tl;dr stuff...

In short; No, I don't think it helped. I don't think it will help. I actually wouldn't be surprised if it hurt in the short term. There's nothing wrong with that because realistically, it needs to hurt some people to help everyone. But I think this bill hurts a majority and helps a minority.
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 01:19:02 am »
The biggest problem though is that for whatever reason the two parties will never agree on whats best... If its for political reasons or personal or kickbacks or that they simply wont.

While this bill surely did not go far enough, if something that went further would have been presented it wouldn't have passed.  For whatever reason the republicans were totally against health care (something that seems like it needs to be fixed).  Was this a political thing?.. I think so (God forbid you let the President of another party work towards something that was a part of his campaign).

But a few things seem good, at least on the surface.  Not being able to deny people for preexisting conditions, expanding parent's health care coverage of children to age 26, expanding options for care, etc.  I guess we will have to see what happens.  I am surely not an expert and have mainly heard things from both sides of the media and "experts."

Of course I was in favor of the student loan changes... of course I also think this should have gone further to revise the federal financial aid process... but thats for another bill?
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Offline Plantains

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2010, 10:20:45 am »
For whatever reason the republicans were totally against health care (something that seems like it needs to be fixed).

This is totally incorrect. Th republicans tried to offer their own ideas that the dems didn't like etc. etc. The whole situation was highly political which is why its likely to be looked at as a failure. BUT, You can't say that the bill was highly political and then say the republicans were against healthcare in the same sentance/breath...
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2010, 05:49:44 pm »
I meant the health care overhaul that was presented (sorry I mistyped).  What ideas did the republicans submit?  I have heard brief mention of some, but I am not overly knowledgeable on them.

Though, I have heard some say they dont think change is needed.. so some are against overhaul.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2010, 06:21:06 pm »
I meant the health care overhaul that was presented (sorry I mistyped).  What ideas did the republicans submit?  I have heard brief mention of some, but I am not overly knowledgeable on them.

Though, I have heard some say they dont think change is needed.. so some are against overhaul.

I don't know much about these, but here are some sources:
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/04/AR2009100402003.html

As I understand it, some people are against any reform that increases the size of government or does not decrease regulation, this may include some or all Republicans, I don't know.  My main hope is that we keep working on making things better for everyone and not stop here--I think many of the ideas listed on the GOP page have merit, especially anything that will reduce the cost of medicine through reducing the cost of malpractice insurance for physicians by not allowing lawsuits for stupid things (is this the tort reform that people talk about from time to time?).  

The bill that just passed is trying to give more people access to healthcare; other people who disagree with the bill obviously want the same thing but they want to do it in a different way.  I share your frustration Guardrail with a) bills that get full of junk because our congresscritters want to extort the rest of the country (by trading their vote for state kickbacks), b) congresscritters that can't be bothered to read an entire bill before voting on it,  c) bills that are too long and complex to read in entirety anyway and create too many loopholes, and d) congresscritters getting free healthcare that is better than that which they are offering the rest of us (at our expense).  These are big problems that need to be addressed, but I don't think pitting one party against others is a way to do this.

It gives me hope that we can try things out as a country and see if they work; we tried prohibition and decided to change our minds afterward; we're still stuck with No Child Left Behind and it's becoming clear that it's not helping, so hopefully we can change that soon; we tried the deregulation of the financial industry for a while (although this is something I'm less knowledgeable about), had this recession the past few years, and will probably address that soon.  No bill or law is the end of the world; it can always be changed when the people decide it doesn't work (look at any number of civil rights issues as well as marijuana regulation).  We just need to do the deciding with a calm head and without the rhetoric that gets ratings for CNN but doesn't inform.

Guardrail, we've talked about certain things in the past and have agreed to disagree before; none of the above is designed to attack you personally (or even characterize you, since I don't know exactly how you feel on a lot of issues).  I just like talking, you know?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 06:23:54 pm by Sal Atticum »
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Offline Plantains

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2010, 08:24:20 pm »
Beek as stated between us many times... we largely seem to agree on these things even though we approach them from opposing viewpoints. Perhaps we're both closet moderates? Who knows...

1. Generally speaking, the people that are against healthcare reform are either:
A. Naieve
B. Misinterpreting what it is/means. Meaning they are against a government takeover of anything and are interpreting this or any reform as such.

2. The issue that I and many others have with the whole "lets try this for awhile and see if it works" concept is that while that may be the best way to look at something like this... the country has to be able to afford it. I don't care who you are, if you know ANYTHING about economics Obama's organization is putting this country in a precarious position. Now... to look to the contrary, some may have said the same of Bush sending us to war so I empathize. But that was then, this is now. Obama hasn't ended the war, I don't imagine he's the person to "end" it anyways, but we haven't done anything more than what was being done under Bush to move closer to an end. This costs us money. The economy has tanked, we can all list whatever reasons for that, still, bottom line, its tanked. To remedy, Obama passed more stimuli packaging. This costs money, REGARDLESS of how effective they are/were (of course I realize that if they were super effective money would get re-injected into the economy but that's poor business). Now we're looking at this healthcare bill. This costs us money. Some argue (myself included) money that we don't have. Being able to spend money to make money so to speak, as is the plan with this bill, is fine, but we're very precariously balanced economically so im much more apprehensive to put ourselves "out there". And NOW we have this wall street, private sector reform (or whatever those idiots are calling it) which is going to cost money.

3. Congresscritters. Awesome.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: What reform means to ND...
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2010, 08:52:16 pm »
I wish Obama would end the war(s), that is, that he or congress or both would decide that enough is enough and that other countries need to be able to stand for themselves.  I go back and forth on how I feel about this depending on the amount of good I perceive is coming to Iraq and Afghanistan (building schools, helping women's rights, promoting democratic election of leaders, all that), but there does come a time when we need to say "look, we've got our own problems, and we can't babysit you forever" and put our money to use at home.  I had a perhaps less-balanced opinion of the war in Iraq when it was first started due to the lack of WMDs according to people who were in charge of looking for those things and was definitively against it.  Money that is being used for military spending could be used to support any number of beneficial programs (whether medical research, technology grants, subsidized healthcare for children, teacher training, infrastructure, you name it) without our status as a world military leader or the safety of our soldiers (sailors, marines, or airmen [airpeople]) being compromised.

But I digress.  I see where you are coming from.  I wish I could do more to help people out, least of which being able to build Campus Dakota into an organization that could actually hire people and contribute to the physical economy, because that would be a bottom-up approach that needs nobody at the top to decide on another stimulus bill.

I wish I could take credit for coming up with congresscritter, but sadly I cannot.
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