Poll

How Frequently do you follow traffic laws as a cyclist?

Always! I always signal and follow all rules of the road
0 (0%)
Almost always...Exceptions are made based on context
5 (83.3%)
Rarely
1 (16.7%)
Never! Each person for themselves
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: April 23, 2008, 01:21:00 PM

Author Topic: Traffic Laws  (Read 10842 times)

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Offline Cuervo

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Traffic Laws
« on: April 16, 2008, 01:21:00 PM »
hey guys I am just curious about an interesting discussion about cyclists and traffic laws...weigh in~!   :evil6:

Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2008, 02:08:13 PM »
I always do, except when I'm with the group and the group decides to run stop signs.

I'm also a fierce proponent of people adhering to right-of-way, which tends to piss off drivers who think they are being nice by treating me like a pedestrian.
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Offline Mario

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2008, 02:41:42 PM »
I do agree.Behavior like that causes disorganization and chaos.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2008, 02:57:05 PM »
If you mean ACTUALLY stopping at all stop signs then I never do because it causes so much more of a flow problem than if I simply slow and pause. Since cars have more acceleration than cyclists care to use on a more consistent basis, stopping at all the stop signs is just going to impede flow.

Nearly 90% of people on bicycles signaling also don't use the proper signals. They simply point the direction they're turning. That frustrates me.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2008, 03:04:20 PM »
I usually lack faith in drivers understanding what the "proper" right-turn signal actually means, so I point.

I make it a point to stop at stop signs because I want to show drivers that I can understand and follow the rules of the road, and they should be able to as well.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2008, 11:21:52 PM »
Right but r u going to unclip and put a foot down?
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 07:31:57 AM »
Why would I do that?  I can trackstand for a second with my wheels stopped and then continue.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 10:47:56 AM »
Thats like saying why would I stop at a stop sign when no cars are coming?
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2008, 11:04:59 AM »
Thats like saying why would I stop at a stop sign when no cars are coming?

Practice.  :D
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2008, 11:06:19 AM »
tuche
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Offline Toaster

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2008, 01:34:00 PM »
I used to follow traffic laws pretty loosely, but since I pretty much started bike commuting all the time, my attitude towards traffic laws has gotten much more conservative. I figure, if I expect cars to follow the rules to a T, I should at least follow them as closely as is practical for a bike. In other words, I don't always stop 100& for stop signs when there are no cars around, however I do slow way down. If there are other cars at the intersection and they have the right of way, I stop completely so as to not have any confusion about weather or not I'm going to stop. If I have the right away, I usually stop about 90%, but keep it rolling so that I don't cause too much of a delay for other traffic.
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Offline ajekt

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2008, 02:30:22 PM »
I dont follow them very closely, though I think I should start following them.
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Offline dakotaZX3

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 03:22:21 PM »
agreed w/ ajekt.

Offline pmp6nl

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2008, 06:03:12 PM »
I for one am someone that needs to work on that.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2008, 01:37:27 PM »
Minneapolis city council member Cam Gordon has some things to say about a recent TV news piece on bicycles breaking the law.  There are also some interesting laws coming out of Idaho.

http://secondward.blogspot.com/2008/05/when-bicyclists-break-law.html
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2008, 11:29:40 AM »
I had a guy on a bike cut me off the other day.  Good thing I pay attention when I drive, someone else may have him them.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2008, 01:43:46 PM »
I would've hit him.
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2008, 11:49:11 AM »
I would've hit him.

I felt like being nice.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2008, 10:43:51 AM »
Minneapolis city council member Cam Gordon has some things to say about a recent TV news piece on bicycles breaking the law.  There are also some interesting laws coming out of Idaho.

http://secondward.blogspot.com/2008/05/when-bicyclists-break-law.html

Here are the official Idaho laws.  I think it would be interesting to get similar laws enacted in ND.  I have not, however, checked up on the number of accidents/dismemberments/deaths in Idaho from bicycle-car interactions.  As far as I know, ND has about 0 a year.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2008, 10:56:08 PM »
The trouble is clearly illustrated with the "failure to yield" aspect. In traffic, stopping at stop signs completely (as is the law) is far more of a neusance than simply timing the stop sign for your turn.

The issue is making yourself predictable and visible. If a car is stopped appropriately at a stop sign, they probably wouldn't see me as I tried to approach and time out my turn. But if I was going an appropriate speed... say 10-15mph as I rolled upto the stop sign, I'd become visible. Plus, as Im approaching, Im adjusting my speed to make myself fit into the rhythm of the intersection. Its all timing. Then, you have the battle of going fast enough where they realize you're going to go through the stop sign, but going slow enough to be manageable within the realms of traffic.

That's why I'm such a huge advocate against stopping at stop signs. Plus... if I actually had to stop, I'd never get a good workout. I'd hit at least 15 packed 4 way stops in the first 5 miles of my route to anywhere.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2008, 11:26:00 PM »
Quote
Plus... if I actually had to stop, I'd never get a good workout. I'd hit at least 15 packed 4 way stops in the first 5 miles of my route to anywhere.

Um . . . you do have to stop.  That's also a horribly selfish argument.  I could just as easily say that I should be able to run bikes off the road because I don't like the way they look.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2008, 01:47:54 PM »
yes THAT is. You can't take it out of context. The reason I DON'T stop is to help the flow of traffic. A car stopping at a stop sign vs. a bike stopping at a stop sign will be far quicker. So if I have the right of way (stopped 1st) and a car has to sit there and wait for me to push off, clip back in, and start to accelerate through the intersection, they'll be waiting there for an extra 5 seconds.

I'd be run off the road. Plain and simple. People around here would MUCH rather have a cyclist time the stop signs and move WITH the flow of traffic, instead of impeding it.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2008, 02:42:11 PM »
I would suggest that people would much rather have a  cyclist be predictable in traffic.  I'm not saying stop and unclip, just stop momentarily (the way most cars almost do) and then proceed.  The way you describe it seems like your saying we should look both ways and then blow the stop sign.

Unfortunately, what we need is some sort of recognition (and in the driver's manual no less) of how cyclists operate in a pragmatic world.  I think enacting laws like Idaho's would be a good start, but I think that drivers should know more about bicycles in general.

For our part, we need to be predictable.  I stop at stop signs, some people roll through, and some just fly through, which makes all of us look bad.
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2008, 03:49:16 PM »
Being predictable is exactly what Im doing. By simply out thinking the motorist. When I come up to a stop sign, the cars at the intersection know exactly what Im about to do. I time it appropriately so that I go through at the appropriate time. Im not blowing stop signs. A cyclist that stops at every stop sign isn't predictable at all. Cars will sit there forever and wait for you to go through the stop sign. So how is that helping anyone? Thats how accidents happen. When 2 cars are sitting there waving each other because no one has any idea who has the right of way. Then one goes and the other goes, then they both stop, wave again, they both go... its just stupid. In fact, thats how I got hit my 1st 2 times. Once running and once riding. Because cars waved me through and I was planning to stop. Now they're expecting me to go. They see me stopping and then they go but they already waved me so I had began to accelerate again and bam.

The only way to be predictable to a motorist is to time it and go through at your turn without affecting traffic flow or by unclipping. You can think that trackstanding at a stop sign is safer, but it will just create confusion.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 03:51:31 PM by Guardrail »
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2008, 05:57:18 PM »
Okay, I think I see what you're saying now.  I agree that it makes sense when you time it so that it's your turn to go through.  Do people really react well to this?  I don't have a lot of experience with the idea of timing it, it seems like people would just see another cyclist blowing a stop sign (when in fact you were going on your turn, but it looks like you just happened to roll through when you saw a gap in the traffic flow (which there would have been, if you were a car, but they aren't expecting there to be, because you're on a bicycle).

Sheesh, this is a tricky subject.  Maybe we should invent a "me next" hand signal or something (when you're approaching the intersection, point at the person you're going to enter the intersection after or something).  I'm just brainstorming.

EDIT:  Realized more pointing wasn't going to help, since we point for turns.  Rrrrr.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 06:53:13 PM by Sal Atticum »
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Offline Plantains

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2008, 10:09:13 PM »
Well... when I go through a stop sign and Im going straight, I almost always go through it with a car so other traffic probably doesn't even realize a cyclist has just gone through.

When Im making a turn, I always pass along the thank you wave to the cars whether they waved me through or not. The traffic reacts really well to it. I've never been beeped at for it. When Im approaching the stop sign to, I think my body language makes it clear what I'm trying to do. Thats the point that I was making regarding you have to be going fast enough so they know ur going through it, but not too fast that it looks like you're disrespecting the law. When I come up to the signs, I'm usually not pedaling, Im out of the saddle, and looking all around so as to see what the beat is. I don't start pedaling again until I'm pretty much at the stop sign and I carry through the turns.

I need to figure out a helmet mount for my camera and get a video. It would make it way more clear.
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2008, 08:30:32 PM »
This really isnt that related but since I started riding I am sick of people parking on sidewalks, having their cars hang over sidewalks, and stopping in the cross walk... common now!
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2008, 11:43:32 AM »
Here's a new one:  http://honorthestop.org/
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Offline nathan.barten

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Re: Traffic Laws
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2008, 10:21:12 PM »
This has been an interesting thread.  I like to see that everyone seems to try to follow the rules pretty well.  I generally stop at any stop sign or stop light whether or not there's traffic coming.  As Yost knows from riding with me I tend to not ever run through a stop-light.  I honestly don't see any reason not to stop at a sign.  Even during a workout I'll usually stop at any place I would in a car.  That's why I workout outside of town where there aren't stop signs.  Also, a note on the hand signals...  I was once told by a policeman to point in the direction I'll be turning.  It helps prevent confusion.  The hand signals that everyone was taught in Drivers Ed. were invented for cars before they had turn signals.  Since only the left hand of a driver could be seen, it made sense to make them that way.  Also, legally both forms of signal are acceptable and there isn't any one way that's better than another.  Point is...  Just USE them.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 10:22:08 PM by nathan.barten »

 

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