Author Topic: A little UND-NDSU enrollment comparison  (Read 4566 times)

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Offline Sal Atticum

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A little UND-NDSU enrollment comparison
« on: February 12, 2009, 06:31:59 PM »
I don't know exactly why I'm posting this, but I figure if I don't, pmp6nl will--just to brag about percent enrollment increases.  So I'm beating him to the punch.

If you don't know, Tu-Uyen Tran is one of the better reporters for the Grand Forks Herald, and has recently begun covering the higher education news.  This comes from his blog (which is usually a fun place).

Quote
Unanswered questions about UND's enrollment

UND spring enrollment came out yesterday and the numbers are up a bit from the year before.

The initial analysis in my story was that UND was counting on growth in the number of Minnesotans, graduate students and distance learning students to bolster its numbers.

Now that I've actually had a little time to think, let's take a different approach:

[Check out the table]

Given the differences between UND and NDSU, particularly in specialized departments such as aerospace sciences, which UND has, and architecture, which NDSU has, it may not make sense to treat them as full rivals. Officials from both universities have traditionally underplayed their rivalry.

However, it's hard not to notice that UND's biggest area of concern, whether NDSU is in the picture or not, is undergraduate enrollment that's all but flat. (I figured out that number by subtracting graduate enrollment from total enrollment. As it's nearly 4 a.m. as I write this, there's no way to check if that's correct. Let's assume it is for now.)

There may be plenty of growth in grad students as UND points out with pride, but the majority of enrollment and tuition comes from undergrads and, really, the basic mission of a university is undergrad in nature. Most people headed for college are only looking for a B.A. so they can get jobs.

This is a topic I'll need to look into further. What is it that's attracting undergrads to NDSU and not so much UND? Is it the mix of programs offered? Is it student life? Is it Fargo versus Grand Forks?

In the meantime, UND's growth in graduate enrollment is pretty impressive.

A lot of that comes from distance learning, however, which, if I'm not mistaken, is mostly aimed at people looking for career advancement. That is, people who are in the work force who either don't have a college degree or already have a B.A. and want to upgrade to an M.A. This is certainly an important niche to fill. But, from what I know, I would contrast it with NDSU's goal of growing graduate enrollment to support its growth as a research institution.

UND wants to grow as a research institution, too. So the question is, how many grad students are those dedicated to research? That is, how many are going for a Ph.D. and serving as a sort of apprentice to some researcher-professor? That's probably another topic I'll need to look into.

It's wonderous how I get the best ideas for interview questions at 4 a.m., isn't it? Does Woodward and Berstein have to put up with this crap?

Posted by: Tu-Uyen on 2/12/2009 at 3:03 AM

Some of the comments are interesting, not least the ones discussing exactly why NDSU snags more undergrads than UND.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: A little UND-NDSU enrollment comparison
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2009, 06:42:02 PM »
I just posted this over on the original comments, in response to the question about research-dedicated grad students.

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In most cases, real grad students are required to do research, and as such they are being actively mentored by faculty members (some more actively than others).  Whether someone would classify this research as beneficial to humanity is one of those things we don't like to think about.

It took me writing that to figure out that you classify all post-undergrad students as graduate students, which is probably something else not brought up in polite conversation.  I wish UND would differentiate between graduate students (getting a research-based degree) and those who are doing something else (the law school, the med school, those business people), because maybe it would explain just how much influence we grad students have.

I get the whole rivalry between UND and NDSU, and I respect that.  I just keep hoping that the administrations of both universities will wise up and realize that the best way to compete is in actual education value, not in sporting events, Division I, or inflated enrollment numbers.
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: A little UND-NDSU enrollment comparison
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 01:49:32 PM »
Some interesting conclusions some people have come to.  I guess it is kinda boiling down to what schools people know about and what their opinion is of those schools.  NDSU is very well known in Minnesota, I dont know about UND.  In my opinion UND is falling behind because of the whole mascot issue, possibly location, and just what people see UND as.  I am not saying this is right or wrong, but many people see it this way.

And dont get me started on the whole academics thing.  I am sure they are fine at both schools.
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Offline Sal Atticum

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Re: A little UND-NDSU enrollment comparison
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 11:32:10 AM »
Having been on the inside for too many years now, it's hard to know what the reputation of UND is from the outside.  UND seems to be well-known in MN, since every other person I meet is from there.

What do you think about out-of-state students getting to go to school cheap?  What's up with that?  Does it help or hurt?
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Offline pmp6nl

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Re: A little UND-NDSU enrollment comparison
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 12:03:41 PM »
I think allowing out of state students to go to school cheap is a good thing.  While it may cost the state a little bit of money, each student is coming here and spending a lot of money.  Not only on school, but rent, food, clothes, etc... it really helps out the economy.  Its a small price for the state to pay for the buying power the students have.

Also, ND needs more people, retaining them in the state is the key.
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