Campus Dakota
Group Memberships => UND Cycling => Topic started by: Sal Atticum on November 11, 2011, 12:58:36 PM
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Hello folks,
Due to outside influences, I'm trying to get everyone on this early this year. I will explain everything soon but I'm still making sure of certain details so the wrong information doesn't get out.
- Focus on February 18th for a date.
- Think about distances
-- Standard "short" and "long" courses, plus
-- "Fatbike" 25 or 50 km course?
- Think about location, sort of dependent on sponsorship I imagine.
- Think about USAC.
- Think about budget, since we don't have Urban Dev. money this year.
Post up your thoughts. Plan for a bunch more people. Jordan, Aaron, I am at your service for this race.
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Bad news: apparently the snowmobile trail (at least on the MN side) is groomed by the MN DNR (Department of Natural Resources), and they classify it as a single-use trail, which means we can't use it for Bikecicle this year. I assume this has to do with funds from snowmobile permits being used for grooming. This is from Kim Greendahl today.
I think our options are to run races on the river itself (if the ice isn't weird this year) or to "groom" our own trail on the ND side if we can find some helpful snowmobilists. I was sort of hoping we could run the fatbike race down the river toward Oslo anyway and just have a turnaround somewhere, but this wouldn't be as fun for the "sprint" races.
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Sounds like a good chat topic for the ride tomorrow. Still on?
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RIDE IS A GO.
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Fun to do some of this on a weeknight as a runup to the race: http://www.threeriversparks.org/events/M/murphy-mountain-bike-frigid-time-trial.aspx
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the "Three Rivers Park district" i've never heard of them... THEY ARN'T REAL
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the "Three Rivers Park district" i've never heard of them... THEY ARN'T REAL
It's in MN. I meant the club could host its own mtb/snowbike itt series over a short course.
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I chatted with Dave and Pat at SBS. Their thoughts were while a fatbike component would be nice, it would be better suited for a stand-alone race someday in the future. That's fine by me, I think trying to incorporate a super long and a normal Bikecicle race would be pretty difficult time-wise.
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Sounds good. You already know, but for others it looks like there's going to be a December 17th gravel grinder/snowbike "race" here in Grand Forks. Talk to Sears or stop by SBS for details, they are slow in coming out.
I'm able to help as needed for
- course design (subject to availability/scheduling),
- designing a flyer (if you give me the info), and
- getting the word out (through northernplainsathletics.com and emails).
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I think the only hang up right now is the status of the Moose for race HQ. Even if the MN trails are a no go, there are workable options from that point.
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Any status update on the Moose as HQ?
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they are down with it. and they are the 2012 und cycling title sponsor!
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Ausable!
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OK, So if we have individuals asking about this event, we better start getting some stuff together (flyer out!) so we can advertise.
Details thus far:
-Feb 18th
-Based out of Blue Moose
-One race (but maybe begin/advanced categories)
I assume we'll go with similar lap lengths TBD based on ground conditions
Questions for flyer:
USAC (I'm thinking no + waiver for simplicity?)
-Time of race start (11ish?)
-Entry Fee
What else?
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I can put together a flier once we have time and cost.
Agree on an earlier time than last year. 11 is probably good.
One race with two categories is probably possible. If people get backed up, that's just what happens. Might want to set a field limit on the website, after which the beginner/advanced will be split.
Logan told me you guys had decided against USAC.
If no USAC, I'd like to keep the entry fee under $20 (maybe $15 with $20 day-of) with a discount for juniors (we're trying to grow the youth, right?). This is a budget issue. I can give my budget spreadsheet to anyone who is interested.
Regarding lap lengths, I think they're pretty good. If it's as warm and fast as last year we should periodically route people off the path into the snow to break down the time trialists.
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Cash payouts? Could be set up as 30% of gross (the budget system we've been using has things setup as % of gross), or we could shift this money to buying more schwag.
The way it has been before:
10% supplies
40% schwag
30% cash
20% profit (split 50/50 between club and REC)
However, any cash payout should be at least two deep in both beginner and advanced, and ought to include both men and women*. Depending on the number of people, the cash payouts could be pretty lean, so maybe we could adjust these percentages to be about 50% for schwag and 40% profit.
*The disparity between amounts of prize money between male and female athletes needs to end somewhere. Just because fewer women race doesn't mean the women who do race should win less money.
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All of that sounds good to me. $15 / $20 day of, $10 for jr?
Maybe the flyer can say something about the course being dependant on ground/weather conditions, but expect a mix of river/greenway/snowmobile trail/ handcrafted trail
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Awesome, did you guys reply to that e mail we had?
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I replied with some general statements (corrected date, he had Jan 18th down), start location, time (I said late morning -early aft), general race specifics (beg/adv categories, no specific fatbike course, etc.).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qSPMNcTe4&feature=youtu.be Looked like a fun course.
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7027/6635947823_2bc5943755_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewbk/6635947823/)
Bikecicle 2012 flyer 2012-01-04 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewbk/6635947823/) by MatthewBK (http://www.flickr.com/people/matthewbk/), on Flickr
PDF attached.
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Also: regarding the FELT sponsorship. We could have FELT give schwag, but they require one of the shops to do it, so it would require the nearest shop (from Bemidji or St Cloud) to come up and be at the event as well. I'm not going to pursue this, so if people think it's a good idea, someone else will have to make some calls.
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Looks good! At the rate this winter is going, we may see some more short sleeves. No promises.
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Volunteers for setting this up at http://www.bikereg.com?
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all looks good! how do we use bike reg for volunteers?
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all looks good! how do we use bike reg for volunteers?
I meant, "does anyone want to volunteer to set up registration at bikereg?"
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I see. I vote someone besides me and beek>?
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and aaron..
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does our club have a login already?
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No, we've never used the site before.
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Should we have a non-online way to preregister? That would save people the $2-$3 processing fee, unless we want to eat it (we've done that in the past with USAC online reg).
I'm pushing this now because we're a month out and people want to sign up for stuff.
Here is the cost analysis/budget so someone else can figure things out.
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Also...
I've been talking to ENDracing and Red River Runners about the shared timing system they are getting. If the club wants to use it for Bikecicle, either someone needs to know how to use it or the club needs to pay someone else to run the timing for the event.
If there is someone who is interested in learning how to run this system, there is going to be a training session on Sunday afternoon. This would need to be a person who is not going to race and ideally who will be around in the future to help out with other races. Could be a good skill to put on your resume. Let me know if you are interested and I'll pass the info along.
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Another idea, how about sometime in the next two weeks we promote and have a "cycling in the snow/winter" event on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon for people who would like some pointers before the race.
Race is now being promoted directly to RRR, so hopefully we'll get some buzz.
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I can help with registration for it if that is a need? Also, what about a fb event? Willing to put it up as well as on the UND calendar? let me know
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that would be awesome! thanks Lauren
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I made a new flyer with some fixes. Now I'll have to be replacing all the posts we made on other people's walls on FB...
FOR FUTURE REFERENCE: rather than posting a new copy of the photo all over Facebook, you can "Share" the existing photo that we have on OUR wall just by right-clicking and getting the link, then pasting that link into the "share a link" field on another wall. It will bring up the photo as a preview.
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The main reason I replaced everything is because I had the title sponsor wrong.
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sorry beek. mills and I thought it was a good idea..
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I think as long as all the sponsors are on there it isn't a big deal. The event IS being hosted at the blue moose..
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As far as course planning goes, it's probably best just to wait awhile till winter figures itself out. We should see a few inches of snow sun/mon. And I'd be surprised if there isn't another shot between now and the race. My guess is we should go out maybe two weeks prior to just to get a general feel for what we can do with the area. With a flotilla of fatbikes we could probably pack down some sweet sections.
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sorry beek. mills and I thought it was a good idea..
No worries, I just was too slow with a new flyer, and the title sponsor was my mistake anyway, so it fits that I had to fix things.
Two things I forgot about last night:
- If there is no prereg, probably can't do shirts, but maybe the club could do other schwag like socks. It's up to the club though.
- The race needs someone who is not racing to officiate/do timing. We can't switch off since we're starting everyone together. Any ideas for someon who would be willing to do this?
Probably more to think about. Aaron, I think you're right about the course. I'm not antsy about getting out there without knowing what the weather will be for at least a few more weeks.
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First, check out the Barncross photos from this weekend. Pretty darn sweet: http://winnipegcyclechick.com/?p=4071
Second, I had a long drive to South Dakota yesterday and had some time to brainstorm (my mind wanders while I drive). These are all things I think would be sweet if I were able to devote time to them.
* Make the course primarily snow. To do this we might cut the laps down a lot shorter and do multiple laps on fatbikes to open up the snow for everyone to be able to ride.
* A shorter course would make it easier to have a kids race but we'd have to get the word out ASAP.
* Use pallets to add in some features. Regular up-and-overs, maybe some (optional) jumps on the downhill sections. Could use snow piles+pallets+more snow to create banked turns.
* Use the river. We could get a lot of distance out of it and it's fun to ride on ice. Access might be interesting.
* I'm picturing the race on the GFK side just north of the parking lot by the bridge. We could use the natural slope there, the river, some of the path, the stairs, a whole bunch of stuff.
* Doing this much will take a lot of work. I'm not sure what to do about that, get more people in the club? Have a course-building party some night in the week leading up?
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Barncross is awesome! I like all of your ideas, especially jumps... Joe and I were going off little sled hill jumps with the fatbikes. All it takes is a few day prep of snow/ice to make them.
As far as manpower goes, I think if we need a floatilla of fatbikes (and skinnies) to pack down a course, we can make it happen. If we are going to go a bit crazier with "features" then perhaps we should do a ride this week to brainstorm so we can plan.
If we still start by blue moose, we could immediately go downhill to the river and make our way to the main portion of the course on the ND side, then back across the river to the finish (uphill ooooo). I'm not sure we want to use the bridge. Need to scope out the river and make sure the ice is safe (stay farther downstream away from the bridge pylons).
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When are you available this week? I need to do a few longer rides and could work in course brainstorming.
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sometime this weekend might be best during the daylight? pretty busy for the remainder of the work week during the daytime.
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Saturday or Sunday afternoon would work I believe.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyo3YVoz-hk[/youtube]
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Sweet. In a perfect world, we could come up with a pretty sweet course just S of the point bridge. Lots of that open single/doubletrack and then you have portions that enter the woods over there. Even some nice hills in a few places. Maybe next year?
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Sunday early afternoon? 1ish? Warm and no fog, should make for good conditions to scout things out. I was puytzing around yesterday and I had to ride goggle/glassless because they got rimed.
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Sweet. In a perfect world, we could come up with a pretty sweet course just S of the point bridge. Lots of that open single/doubletrack and then you have portions that enter the woods over there. Even some nice hills in a few places. Maybe next year?
I think it'd be sweet except it wouldn't be as accessible to spectators who didn't make the trip out there specifically for the race. Maybe I worry about that too much?
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Naw, that's a valid concern. I imagine there will always be a balance between accessibility and course design. 1pm on Sun work for you? Or maybe we should go later like 2:30-3 if anyone else who is training wants to scope things out?
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1 pm should work for me unless other people want to have input.
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I think we should schedule the ride around the spin class. (anytime before 12 or after 2)
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Or I could go today, but that would be during spin class too I guess.
I could do after 2.
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3:15 union?
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mkay with me.
I identified some features today that would be cool to include. On the EGF side the closest river access to the north is just south of the Gateway bridge, which is fine except that I don't know exactly what you would do between there and the Blue Moose (since the snowmobile trail is not useable). I'll post my ideas tomorrow morning probably.
As far as manpower goes, I think if we need a floatilla of fatbikes (and skinnies) to pack down a course, we can make it happen.
Depending on how tomorrow goes, having some sort of semiofficial course party some night the week of the race to wear things in wouldn't be a bad idea, and could be expanded to include some adult beverages.
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mmm frosty beverages. River access did look problematic near the Moose. The closest (safe place) to cross the river may be either at the boat landing or just up a bit near that drainage culvert. We could crunch down a path between the snowmobile course and the river's edge.
I'll plan on meeting you guys by the town square or the moose around 3:30?
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I rode across a couple times today just north of mt haga and the ice seemed fine. There's egf access right there and gf access either directly across or slightly north (and then pretty regular as you go north). I'd put a map up now but I'm at the roller derby right now.
We can make it work. I'm a little sad we can't add any more urban terrain in.
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http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208329735238098844857.0004b839554e696061a61&msa=0&ll=47.930491,-97.033267&spn=0.007318,0.018089
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How does this look? I added some curves and it comes out to 0.95 miles.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208329735238098844857.0004b8506521e4e90fe17&msa=0&ll=47.92764,-97.031246&spn=0.003659,0.008379
I think riding down the section you pointed out Aaron is possible; at least I rode down it a few times yesterday.
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Looks good to me, I only had two ideas in the shower this morning:
#1 Chicane area on the river?
#2 I thought it might be fun to have the course go up the N side of the parking lot before hitting the greenway. You could give the riders two options:
-run with your bike up the stairs
-we shovel /fatbike flotilla the area next to the stairs and give them the possibility of riding up the hill.
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Looks good to me, I only had two ideas in the shower this morning:
#1 Chicane area on the river?
Sounds more fun if we shovel...
#2 I thought it might be fun to have the course go up the N side of the parking lot before hitting the greenway. You could give the riders two options:
-run with your bike up the stairs
-we shovel /fatbike flotilla the area next to the stairs and give them the possibility of riding up the hill.
Not quite sure what you mean...
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(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4187591/race.jpg)
I exaggerated the way up to the greenway. Racers can either run up the stairs with their bike or they can ride up an area we pack/shovel.
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Gotcha ducks.
Logan, do you have any problem with how short this course is getting? At a mile a lap, it would be something like 5 laps beginner/8 laps advanced.
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Logan thought it sounded good (chatted at spin)
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Looks great to me!
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Not that it will get us any more riders at the event, but I'd bet Collegiate Cycling News would post a preview of Bikecicle since we're a collegiate club . . . if somebody wanted to write one.
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Also if you let Kim Greendahl know about the race, she'll send out word on the Greenway email list.
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contact info for her? Can't seem to find an email online.
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Kim Greendahl, Greenway Specialist - City of Grand Forks - P.O. Box 5200 -
Grand Forks, ND 58206--5200 - Phone: (701) 738-8746 - e-mail:
[email protected]
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GPS track from today: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4187591/course.html (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4187591/course.html) Length is ~0.7mi
I'm having some reservations liking it as the final course. Nothing wrong with it, but it could get cramped if we run both races at the same time. The course also seem some what disjointed. I think we can assume there will be at least 3 spots people have to get up off their bikes. With the downhills/ and get-offs, there are very few sections where you can "get in a groove".
I keep leaning towards our original idea with the crossing farther down the river. If we don't get any additional snow, these sections will be fast. In my opinion, we should have no issue using the snowmobile trail since it isn't groomed, and there isn't enough snow for sleds.
Opinions?
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Agree. Your call.
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Holy crap, I just realized something. Blue moose isn't even open at registration time.
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and on that note what's the status of everything else? We should have this stuff figured out ASAP. Maybe the Moose would allow us in a little early (I wouldn't be surprised if people are there by 9:30am for the 11am opening). If this is a possibility, however, we need to contact them ASAP and ask. Otherwise just tell them we'll be dominating them after the race.
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Sent the info to Kim, she was still concerned about snowmobile trail use. If I hear back and get an OK from the red river snowmobile club, we can go ahead and modify the course, otherwise we'll leave it be.
In its current form, we have some shoveling to do, perhaps a coursework ride on Sat afternoon to do a little shoveling/prep to make sure it is safe?
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I just e-mailed dave at the Blue Moose. We'll plan on an outside registration for now (good catch Aaron). I agree We should have a course work day (saturday or sunday), we can talk about what needs to be done as well.
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Ok, stuff is snowballing. Kim sent me a permit we need to fill out for EGF, need to do this asap. She doesn't know what the turn around time is on it. This should probably be filled out by an officer:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4187591/EGF_application.pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4187591/EGF_application.pdf)
Second of all, I heard back from the snowmobile club. The guy doesn't think it will be a big deal, however, he will mention it at their meeting on Monday and report back to us Tuesday.
Sat would work better for me, shooting a snowmobile race on Sun.
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sent to jordan. he will get r done
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Sounds good, I'd say lets wait till Tue. to do any coursework (so we know what the status of the trail is). Once we know, however, I think it will take a solid couple of hours to go over the course, shovel what we think is needed, and get an idea of what sort of markings we will need. I'm thinking late wed/thur afternoon? Not sure what everyone elses schedules is so feel free to chime in.
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If you know where the course is going to be, weren't you guys talking about having a bunch of people out and just telling them how they could help?
Are you planning to shovel the river section?
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I'm free wednesday after 2 or tuesday after 3:15
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Aaron, if you let me know when you hear back about the trail I can update the Google Map and get it out for people to see.
Andy said something about figuring out timing for this race on Thursday or Friday, has he talked to you about that?
Does the club have numbers?
Volunteers?
[insert anything else it's possible to worry about here]
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Will do, I talked to Logan at spin and we were thinking ~3pm Wed ride to do trail work. Let me know if that works for you.
I know Lauren was going to help with registration... I haven't heard of anyone else. Based off the numbers at spin, we should be able to get a couple more to assist. I think a bunch of them weren't planning on racing, but I could be wrong.
No clue on the number of participants.
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ya can still help, just let me know what time to show up.........
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Ok, I totally dropped the ball and forgot I have an important meeting at 4pm tomorrow. I got the OK from the snowmobile club for us to use the trail. If you guys want you can meet without me, or we can push it back to Thursday, doesn't matter to me except I won't be able to bring the three shovels tomorrow.
Since we can use the trail, I figure we can run a similar course as last year except we cross the river where we scouted the other week and then run the route we charted out.
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Do you still want it run like this photo, except we come in from the north on the GF snowmobile trail?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4187591/race.jpg)
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no problem aaron. lets meet at 3:45 tomorrow out front of the blue moose. I can bring 1 shovel.
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Hmm, I made a post answering Beek but it disappeared. But yes, that sounds good to me.
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I didn't moderate it.. must have been beek or perhaps dave?
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I think the computer just went weird, nothing with moderation.
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How . . . are we going to run the start/finish/lap . . . with power for the timing system (or should I let Logan and Andy worry about this?)?
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Does anyone know when the Riverwalk Centre opens on Saturday? Just a thought for an alternative place to send people if they want to be inside/use restrooms before the race.
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I'll check the doors while I'm over there this afternoon. What sort of power does the timing system need? I have a 2-prong outlet on my car, I was thinking of running the car anyway to provide music.
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I'm still planning on meeting at 3:30 in front of the blue moose. I'll bring 1 shovel!
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will be there
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http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/69535946
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Sweet.
3laps/5laps? --> 4.5/7.5 miles.
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done and done. how many numbers do you have beek?
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I have a bunch in the secret stash that I can bring in the morning.
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aaron can you bring that inverter from your car, and do you have a table we can use? We will need to move the start/finish line due to the timing system (needs power), END racing will pay for timing chips so long as we recycle them.
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I have a bunch in the secret stash that I can bring in the morning.
pro. thanks
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I'll bring you the whole box of things in my office. There's also wire in there that I just saw that can be used to hook numbers onto bicycles. And pens.
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I am in possession of a planet bike taillight that was dropped during the race. Let me know if it is yours!
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Oh ya, I thought the race went great, racers seemed to enjoy the course. The last two years give us plenty to build off of for next year (more marketing?).
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Great job guys! That was a blast to race. Thanks for putting it on, I think it will continue to grow.
Logan, I just saw your text from Saturday morning; I would have gotten waivers sooner if my phone had been working.
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no worries beek. all worked out!
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Amazing what a few days makes. Rode a portion of the course tonight and man would it have been different if the date was shifted slightly!
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Hey Y'all,
Are there gonna be cool shirts again this year?
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I don't believe so?
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negatory